Beethoven ninth shoot out

astrotoy

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Bohm's '72 performance on LP, also with the Weiners (and also with its own dedicated side) is another excellent choice - it is part of his DG box on vinyl from the same era and definitely one of the ones - but the '81 has, imo, better dynamics, better bass, and a bit more clarity. The latter is slower but suits Bohm's style and he definitely makes it all work. I'm open to hearing others, but for now, as regards sound quality, on vinyl this is the Ninth for me.

Thanks for reminding me of the 72 Bohm. I remember distinctly hearing the fourth movement the first time and being absolutely floored with first entrance of baritone after the statement in the cellos. I had a completely visceral reaction of the grandeur and clarity of the piece and the recording.

Larry
 

garylkoh

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Beethoven began to lose hearing around 1800, but by 1814, he could still hear speech and music normally and he gradually became more and more deaf. He lost high frequencies first. By 1824, he was profoundly deaf.

It was noted that he did start some of the thematic material for the 9th around 1815. From starting the 1st movement to completing the work took 6 1/2 years - so, he might not have been completely deaf through out the whole process.
 

edorr

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Beethoven began to lose hearing around 1800, but by 1814, he could still hear speech and music normally and he gradually became more and more deaf. He lost high frequencies first. By 1824, he was profoundly deaf.

It was noted that he did start some of the thematic material for the 9th around 1815. From starting the 1st movement to completing the work took 6 1/2 years - so, he might not have been completely deaf through out the whole process.

He first mentioned suffering from hearing loss in 1802 in the "Heiligenstadt Testament", and was almost completely deaf in 2014 according to some sources (Solomon 2001)....
 

puroagave

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He first mentioned suffering from hearing loss in 1802 in the "Heiligenstadt Testament", and was almost completely deaf in 2014 according to some sources (Solomon 2001)....

id say he was completely dead by 2014:p
 

LL21

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For all of those interested in the history of the 9th; this is a pretty good read...



On May 7, 1824, the premier of Beethoven’s ninth and last symphony pushed symphonic music into Romanticism. Napoleon had been overthrown. Byron, Pushkin, and Stendhal had advanced poetry and prose fiction; Delacroix, painting. Maturing as such political and artistic ferment mounted, Beethoven had discovered the “Ode to Joy” of Romantic literary forefather Friedrich Schiller 30 years earlier and employed it to sum up his art. Sachs discusses each movement of the Ninth in detail, from the terror and despair of the first to the anger and acceptance in the second to the peace of the third. The fourth begins with quotations from the its predecessors. Then, the bass vocal soloist interrupts to launch the movement into joy and hope. The Ninth influenced all subsequent nineteenth-century composers, who from Berlioz to Meyerbeer to Wagner built upon the foundations laid by Beethoven. This discussion of the cornerstone of Romantic music, whose influence extended deep into the twentieth century, is concise, thorough, and written from the heart of a great biographer, musicologist, and lover of fine music. --Alan Hirsch
This description is exactly why I personally like the Harnoncourt so much...it is richly romantic while maintaining the structure that was still evident in composition at that time. I listened to the 9th by HVK '63, Hogwood, Furtwangler '54 and Harnoncourt while working last nite, and I really was amazed by the Harnoncourt. Not so much his other 8 symphonies...but for the 9th, Harnoncourt is my favourite.
 

LL21

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What a great thread - thanks ruxtonvet for starting it. In a few days (May 7th) we'll have the 190 year anniversary of the debut of the Ninth - quite fitting!

The 4th movement really is a sonic challenge. You observe that decent soundstage separates the men from the boys; I agree - achieving it is not so easy and doing so reflects choices about perspective and balance across the orchestra, soloists and choir. But, imo, where it really starts for vinyl is whether the 4th movement gets its own side. Several records see part (or even all) of the 3rd mvmt included on the same side as the fourth, and doing is a big ...

...And Bohm has a fine Classical sensibility for the work. It is, imo, more visceral than the HvK '63. Bohm's '72 performance on LP, also with the Weiners (and also with its own dedicated side) is another excellent choice - it is part of his DG box on vinyl from the same era and definitely one of the ones - but the '81 has, imo, better dynamics, better bass, and a bit more clarity. The latter is slower but suits Bohm's style and he definitely makes it all work. I'm open to hearing others, but for now, as regards sound quality, on vinyl this is the Ninth for me.

Thanks...I may try Bohm. Meanwhile, I actually find the 1 and 2 movement for me to be more challenging to listen to than the 4th in many systems. Probably for the same reason I find it easier to listen to concertos than symphonies oftentimes. Concertos and Beethoven 9th 4th movement have varied sonic sources...voices, a soloist...which gives the music variety. 1st and 2nd movements of the 9th have a lot of solid massed strings...which if a system cannot handle the dynamics and requisite delineation...it just starts to sound like a 40 minute-long smeared single note of strings. This is why for years I had symphonies but did not listen to them as often. For the first time, I will listen to symphonies often with large scale massed strings for protracted periods. But it has taken years to get to that point. I still listened to symphonies but not nearly as frequently as today. My two cents.
 

LL21

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Yes, I understand exactly what you mean though for me one of the true joys of larger scale works is the 'shimmer' from massed strings with the bloom or harmonic cloud that settles above the respective sections. ... Imo, this is partly a function of a system's ability to preserve and finely delineate subtle timing and micro-dynamic cues within the audio signal; precisely the sort of benefit one gets from attention to both clean power (eg, Typhons) and vibration control (eg, Stillpoints). As you have discovered with the Apertures, acoustic treatments are most important helpers to reduce signal smearing and allow this wonderful effect to reach the ears.

Massed strings serve partly as the rhythm section for the final movement of the Ninth with emphasis more so on the various soloists and choir. Critics observe Beethoven, after having written the first three movements and finding them good asks himself "what can I do to top those" and his answer is "a big choir!" - so your observation of it being 'concerto-esque' is quite apt, at least to me. W/out meaning to go off topic, try Peter Maag on Decca conducting Mendelssohn's Fingal's Cave or his Scotch Symphony where strings predominate to hear the string emphasis (and ensuing shimmer) as it shifts across the soundstage from section to section. Or the opening to Sibelius' 6th or Wagner's Prelude to Act 1 of Lohengrin, etc. etc. Maybe you draw back in to symphonies. :) Sorry to rattle on - your note struck a chord with me!

Great stuff on massed strings and music! Thank you! I have much of Mendelssohn's work and will cue that up next. I am only just getting around through my collection with the 'new system'. I also have Wagner's Prelude to Act 1 but not Sibelius. Will continue to re-explore massed strings this weekend...particularly older recordings!
 

rbbert

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The Solti/CSO 9th is also available as a Japanese XRCD which sounds better than the London CD I also have; it's really the only Beethoven symphony I enjoy by Solti although I'm not sure it's really a contender among other Beethoven 9th's. The '63 HVK cycle is available on SACD, which sounds better to me than the original CD release I also have had.
 

LL21

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The Solti/CSO 9th is also available as a Japanese XRCD which sounds better than the London CD I also have; it's really the only Beethoven symphony I enjoy by Solti although I'm not sure it's really a contender among other Beethoven 9th's. The '63 HVK cycle is available on SACD, which sounds better to me than the original CD release I also have had.

Thanks...good to know about Solti. I found my '63 HVK SACD set of the 9 symphonies a while ago 2nd hand and picked them up before I was certain about my digital...so I have it even though with my Zanden I no longer look at the SACD option. No idea if it was remastered or not (I should check)...but I do like them.
 

slowGEEZR

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When my father passed away, I inherited his collection of vinyl. This thread prompted me to look through it and I found a 1963 DGG Karajan box set of Beethoven's ninth. I never listen to classical, but I will give this a listen as, upon inspection, it doesn't look like these have been played and appear in untouched condition. There are a few other box sets that I might have a listen to, also.
 

astrotoy

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The Solti Ninth with the CSO was a long time resident on the Absolute Sound Super Disc List (vinyl of course) in its original release, Decca 6BB121-2.

Larry
 

LL21

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When my father passed away, I inherited his collection of vinyl. This thread prompted me to look through it and I found a 1963 DGG Karajan box set of Beethoven's ninth. I never listen to classical, but I will give this a listen as, upon inspection, it doesn't look like these have been played and appear in untouched condition. There are a few other box sets that I might have a listen to, also.

A touching story regarding the HVK '63 9th...Let us know what you think!
 

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