Beethoven ninth shoot out

[ruxtonvet]

This my favorite piece of music. Difficult to record and perform. The 4th movement is the part of the symphony I love the most and used for this shoot out. I have 10 vinyl and 3 SACD versions. Congestion, lack of deep bass and loss of a sound stage are what separate the men from the boys in this competition. A poor performance is less of an issue than I expected it to be, but poor sound quality was common especially on the vinyl. Best sound quality was a surprise - Leibowitz conducting the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra on Reader's Digest box set of the nine symphonies. Next up for sound quality would be Reiner with the CSO (LSC 6096 shaded dog). Solti with the CSO presents a number of problems. I have the Decca, London and Mobile Fidelity versions of this. Bass and lack of congestion best on the Mobile version but something just feels wrong with the performance. Direct disc version on M & K Realtime with the LA Camerata Symphony Orchestra has no congestion and excellent bass, but they sound like it was an effort to keep awake. Herreweghe with the Royal Flemish Philharmonic on Pentatone (SACD) was a nice combination of excellent sound quality and a good performance. So let move to the elephant in this listening room: 1963 DGG Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic. Excellent performance with wonderfully singing and passable sound quality. By passable I mean ok bass with fair to good dynamics. Soundstage on DGG? You can answer that one. Which one do I reach for- the Karajan. Your choices?

 

[puroagave]

This my favorite piece of music. Difficult to record and perform. The 4th movement is the part of the symphony I love the most and used for this shoot out. I have 10 vinyl and 3 SACD versions. Congestion, lack of deep bass and loss of a sound stage are what separate the men from the boys in this competition. A poor performance is less of an issue than I expected it to be, but poor sound quality was common especially on the vinyl. Best sound quality was a surprise - Leibowitz conducting the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra on Reader's Digest box set of the nine symphonies. Next up for sound quality would be Reiner with the CSO (LSC 6096 shaded dog). Solti with the CSO presents a number of problems. I have the Decca, London and Mobile Fidelity versions of this. Bass and lack of congestion best on the Mobile version but something just feels wrong with the performance. Direct disc version on M & K Realtime with the LA Camerata Symphony Orchestra has no congestion and excellent bass, but they sound like it was an effort to keep awake. Herreweghe with the Royal Flemish Philharmonic on Pentatone (SACD) was a nice combination of excellent sound quality and a good performance. So let move to the elephant in this listening room: 1963 DGG Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic. Excellent performance with wonderfully singing and passable sound quality. By passable I mean ok bass with fair to good dynamics. Soundstage on DGG? You can answer that one. Which one do I reach for- the Karajan. Your choices?

not surprised, that collection was recorded by decca (ken Wilkinson!) along with the romantic rachmanioff box w/ earl wild and jascha horenstein/RPO also on readers digest - an awesome set.

 

[hvbias]

1963 DGG Karajan is my reference. This is from the original release (pre-remaster) West German pressed CD box set which I find sounds better than the later reissued box set. The one I have been curious about hearing is Krips' recording on Everest.

 

[LL21]

'63 Karajan for me. In addition:

- I also like (despite its quality) the boutique, French remasters of the Furtwanglers. Boy are the well remastered ones tough to find...still no audiophile recording, but very acceptable. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001A72XOI/ref=wms_ohs_product_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

- Recenty, I picked up Sir Christopher Hogwood for something very different, and I like them.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000004CYT/ref=wms_ohs_product_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[LL21]

Specifically for the 9th, I very much like Harnoncourt for a richly romantic 9th. It was the very first Beethoven Symphony I ever owned, and I still like it a lot. I have the rest of Harnoncourt's Beethoven symphonies but I rarely play them anymore now that I have all of Karajan '63, Hogwood and Furtwangler which I prefer. But Harnoncourt's 9th is still quite special I think.

 

[jazdoc]

I also prefer the '63 HVK.

 

[astrotoy]

I also prefer the '63 HVK.

The HvK box of Beethoven Symphonies (63) was the first set of records that I bought, as a freshman in college, in the fall of 1963. As I remember it was $18.95 for the set. I used to play the symphonies straight through on my AR Turntable and Shure Cartridge and headphones while I was typing English essays. Usually I was done by the time I got to the Pastoral or 7th, but sometimes it would take enough time to get to the Ninth or even cycle back to the early symphonies. I loved hearing the soaring soprano of Gundula Janowitz, particularly in the quartet toward the end of the 4th movement.

Larry

 

[ruxtonvet]

I did not include RBCDs in my survey although I have many including the Harnoncourt and the Hogwood. The reason being that I do not consider RBCDs capable of high resolution reproduction at least not on my system. I did pull out the Harnocourt for a listen. Nice performance but a definite digital edge with little deep bass and minimal sound stage ( multi-miked?).

 

[jazdoc]

The HvK box of Beethoven Symphonies (63) was the first set of records that I bought, as a freshman in college, in the fall of 1963. As I remember it was $18.95 for the set. I used to play the symphonies straight through on my AR Turntable and Shure Cartridge and headphones while I was typing English essays. Usually I was done by the time I got to the Pastoral or 7th, but sometimes it would take enough time to get to the Ninth or even cycle back to the early symphonies. I loved hearing the soaring soprano of Gundula Janowitz, particularly in the quartet toward the end of the 4th movement.

Larry

Cool story! Thanks for sharing.

 

[LL21]

I did not include RBCDs in my survey although I have many including the Harnoncourt and the Hogwood. The reason being that I do not consider RBCDs capable of high resolution reproduction at least not on my system. I did pull out the Harnocourt for a listen. Nice performance but a definite digital edge with little deep bass and minimal sound stage ( multi-miked?).

thanks...I agree on Harnoncourt...its a shame that it feels a bit thin. That said, I am currently listening to a very nice boutique remaster of Furtwangler's 1954 performance of the 9th. Feels old, but I really like his conducting. I've finished the HVK '63 and after Furtwangler will move to the Hogwood.

 

[LL21]

You know...listening to Furtwangler's 1954 Beethoven's 9th, I have to admit it is REALLY good. I truly WISH I could hear it beautifully mastered...but alas, the excellent remastering I already have is apparently the best one is going to hear. There is something of Vladmir Horowitz in his conducting...old school precision, and yet still an emotional flair...vibrant dynamics with disciplined control. Von Karajan is surprisingly not dissimilar, except that it is slightly less controlled, less disciplined. Furtwangler is decidedly 'old school'.

By contrast, on piano works, I sometimes like contemplative performers. Michael Pletnev for example, contemplative, serious, bookish...on Scarlatti or Bach piano works, it is wonderful.

But on orchestral scale works, I like more dynamics and verve in addition to the technical and precise...and Furtwangler really delivers. On to Hogwood next and then may be Harnoncourt if I can swing it.

 

[hvbias]

I did not include RBCDs in my survey although I have many including the Harnoncourt and the Hogwood. The reason being that I do not consider RBCDs capable of high resolution reproduction at least not on my system. I did pull out the Harnocourt for a listen. Nice performance but a definite digital edge with little deep bass and minimal sound stage ( multi-miked?).

I'd love to find a quiet playing vinyl box set of Karajan's Beethoven symphonies. I found two mint looking boxes at Half Priced Books; both played with more surface noise than I find acceptable for classical. Bought another off Ebay plagued with the same problems. These were all domestic pressing, so maybe there are some imports pressed on quiet vinyl, but I have no interest in DGG's digitally sourced vinyl.

 

[garylkoh]

I'm feeling lonely here....... no mention of Toscanini's recordings?

The sound quality on this box set is very variable, but I thought his interpretation of the 9th was magnificent.

 

[LL21]

will try to listen to snips on Amazon at least to get a flavour. Thanks Gary!

 

[LL21]

I'm feeling lonely here....... no mention of Toscanini's recordings?

The sound quality on this box set is very variable, but I thought his interpretation of the 9th was magnificent.

View attachment 15443

There is a digital remaster from 2013 of Toscanini's 9 Beethoven Symphonies...do you know if they are better? Reviews suggest so, but could not find a place to listen to them. thanks for any guidance here!

 

[LL21]

I have just finished HVK '63, Furtwangler '54, Hogwood...and now on to Harnoncourt. Although my favourite series is probably HVM, I will say the Harnoncourt 9th so far is incredibly rich, romantic and powerful...which I really enjoy with something as sweeping and magnificent as the 9th. And coming off the Furtwangler...I will say the recording of Harnoncourt on my system now (which has vastly improved since the last time I played this 9th) really presents the Harnoncourt beautifully.

 

[RBFC]

I saw George Szell conduct #9 in Cleveland in the 60's. I remember the spectacle of the huge orchestra with chorus on stage at Severance Hall. I wasn't quite old enough to fully appreciate what I heard, but that experience lit the spark for decades of classical music enjoyment!

Lee

 

[jazdoc]

For all of those interested in the history of the 9th; this is a pretty good read...

On May 7, 1824, the premier of Beethoven’s ninth and last symphony pushed symphonic music into Romanticism. Napoleon had been overthrown. Byron, Pushkin, and Stendhal had advanced poetry and prose fiction; Delacroix, painting. Maturing as such political and artistic ferment mounted, Beethoven had discovered the “Ode to Joy” of Romantic literary forefather Friedrich Schiller 30 years earlier and employed it to sum up his art. Sachs discusses each movement of the Ninth in detail, from the terror and despair of the first to the anger and acceptance in the second to the peace of the third. The fourth begins with quotations from the its predecessors. Then, the bass vocal soloist interrupts to launch the movement into joy and hope. The Ninth influenced all subsequent nineteenth-century composers, who from Berlioz to Meyerbeer to Wagner built upon the foundations laid by Beethoven. This discussion of the cornerstone of Romantic music, whose influence extended deep into the twentieth century, is concise, thorough, and written from the heart of a great biographer, musicologist, and lover of fine music. --Alan Hirsch

 

[garylkoh]

By the time of the debut of the 9th, Beethoven was profoundly deaf. He sat in the middle of the orchestra, back to the audience following the performance with his score.

The music made a profound impression on the audience and wave upon wave of applause broke out - Beethoven being deaf, was not even aware of the admiration until the alto, Fraulein Unger went up to him and turned him around to face the people who were still clapping their hands showing their admiration. This act electrified the audience as they realized that he had not turned around because he could not hear what was going on. When the audience broke out into a fifth round of applause, the Police Commissioner yelled "Silence". The rule in Vienna was that the Imperial Family were accorded three successive bursts of applause. Beethoven got five - which was unheard of.

 

[edorr]

By the time of the debut of the 9th, Beethoven was profoundly deaf. He sat in the middle of the orchestra, back to the audience following the performance with his score.

To be more precise, he was essentially deaf while composing the whole thing, not just when it debuted.