Another Apogee thread? You bet!

[spiritofmusic]

Caelin, this is my thread, let me worry about it being derailed
I'd love you to reveal yr chosen spkr

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Micro
There was a fairly good wall of sound at the live band playing at my nephew's wedding on Fri
But I don't want them in my loft either
No, the Duettas are truly spectacular however you cut it incl price/performance ratio
Nothing close to their entry ticket of £15k gets close to their cv of impressive achievements
My Zus doing what I value most somewhat better, so happy to stick as is, w additional need to just take in the new room as is and tune the Zus a little further

 

[Zero000]

Marc's forensic comment. You should hear them with the Accuphase amps. It is absurd! Crazy detail.

You can tweak it out if you want. I'm pretty convinced the following will do it. As I texted you in fact.

"I'm thinking of running 2mm thick foam strips inside the mid/treble ribbon just to see the effect of damping that long thin ribbon as effectively it operates in a very hard walled enclosure I.e. solid magnets. Should be interesting."

The beauty of hand made underground speakers is you can change their nature. You just need to think a bit and be practical.

Anyway, I return from Munich fully realising my speakers trash, and I really do mean trash, speakers that cost many multiples of the cost of mine.

To my tastes, that is.

Excuse my apparent pomposity but there's nothing more self-asserting than realising the truth LOL.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Like most of you here, I am drawn to the spatial qualities of the Apogees and the 'live' jump factor of a horn. There is no perfect speaker, for all tastes and music types. And yet, I am pretty sure that I have found a speaker that has enough of the qualities of both the Apogee and the qualities of a horn without giving away much if anything on either side.

I won't mention it in this thread since it would derail the thread.

Caelin, I believe that one's musical preference can influence the choice of one's speaker. What kind of music do you listen to mostly?

 

[bonzo75]

Like most of you here, I am drawn to the spatial qualities of the Apogees and the 'live' jump factor of a horn. There is no perfect speaker, for all tastes and music types. And yet, I am pretty sure that I have found a speaker that has enough of the qualities of both the Apogee and the qualities of a horn without giving away much if anything on either side.

I won't mention it in this thread since it would derail the thread.

Spatial qualities come from most planars. Pure ribbon mids come from FR and scintilla. Live jumps come from both, what I think a good SET horn does better than any other speaker is flow - music will flow out like a tap. Piano, brass, the softer parts of an orchestra will be better than anything

Would be good to know what your speaker amp combo is

 

[bonzo75]

Marc's forensic comment. You should hear them with the Accuphase amps. It is absurd! Crazy detail.

I don't think Apogees are detailed. They have good enough detail for me, but not like many modern speakers. Obviously I don't consider it a negative influence on my decision. Just mentioning as fact. Stats, analysis, are more detailed.

 

[bonzo75]

thanks...I have never bought just to try and then resell at even a marginal loss. not my thing...suppose that's why most of what i buy is 2nd hand or demo. In any event, having spent time with Apogee Stages many, many years ago, it has remained on my list all this time as a particularly special sound. I probably need to go listen to a Full Range and get a feel for it. I suppose that means Henk?

Henk has a client in Frankfurt with FR. I can put you in touch with him. He has a 14x4m room so while you will get some magic there will also be some things wrong. So recommended that you should listen to both that and Henk's Grands.

 

[Zero000]

I don't think Apogees are detailed. They have good enough detail for me, but not like many modern speakers. Obviously I don't consider it a negative influence on my decision. Just mentioning as fact. Stats, analysis, are more detailed.

That's funny I was thinking the opposite listening to ML 13A and Audio Exclusiv yesterday. Also I was really struggling with 13A. I didn't like it and I usually like MLs.

 

[bonzo75]

That's funny I was thinking the opposite listening to ML 13A and Audio Exclusiv yesterday. Also I was really struggling with 13A. I didn't like it and I usually like MLs.

I am not talking about liking, but just about details. ML had more details, though I did not hear the 13A yesterday.

 

[ddk]

I think that it is why we have mixed feelings concerning the Apogees and they are preferred by the lovers of 70's rock and amplified music - these panels need high level to show their magic. When I had the Duetta Signatures I found that at the typical level of acoustic music at row H they lacked life, but as soon as they reached a level that would really disturb neighbors they sounded much betterm and had magic. The Soundlab's, probably because of their much larger panel surface and radiation pattern can play great at much lower levels, but do not have the dynamic range of the Apogees.

They were great for Jazz too, very sexy sound with horns! The Divas where easier to drive than the Duettas but I agree with you neither one was ideal with classical and the Soundlabs do have more resolution and don't need volume to come to life but later with the Lamm amps the Divas had all the right ingredients for classical too.

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dave, due to shortness of time (and in retrospect I wish I'd spent less time w the Analysis Omegas and more w Justin's Duettas) I didn't get a chance to hear any classical on them
My only data point on acoustic was Miles Davis "Freedom Jazz Dance" off "Miles Smiles"
And this was as stellar as you could imagine at Justin's

 

[bonzo75]

They were great for Jazz too, very sexy sound with horns! The Divas where easier to drive than the Duettas but I agree with you neither one was ideal with classical and the Soundlabs do have more resolution and don't need volume to come to life but later with the Lamm amps the Divas had all the right ingredients for classical too.

david

I would disagree on classical.
Arias/Opera – While both do female vocals well, I find the pure ribbon to excel here, and I find stats weak on the chest of a baritone.
Piano – Both are not as good as a good SET horn, but Apogees are better than all stats including the SLs I heard.
Orchestra – Apogees do awesome scale and bass and dynamics – in fact the best tympanis and bass drums, and the orchestra comes as a whole, the bass exists in space. It is orchestra and arias that drive my biggest desire for apogees. I found the SLs I heard not as good in the midbass. In fact big orchestras is what I did not like on them for that reason
Chamber – Both are good.
Chorals – SL will have more details and airiness in a church

 

[gilles13]

I listen only classical music and love natural sound and find apogee excellent for this.
Opera is not as real on stats (except perhaps sound lab),and voices can go louder on apogee. I have a record of bel canto arias with M Hornes and when she sings at the end with full orchestra, stats cannot follow.

 

[bonzo75]

I listen only classical music and love natural sound and find apogee excellent for this.
Opera is not as real on stats (except perhaps sound lab),and voices can go louder on apogee. I have a record of bel canto arias with M Hornes and when she sings at the end with full orchestra, stats cannot follow.

+1.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Opera is not as real on stats (except perhaps sound lab) (...)

People who have been in the SME listening room considered it the best recorded opera experience in their life. The four ESL63 Quad's were however heavily modified.

If I was just an opera listener I would have stayed with a system I hosted long ago - ESL63 with Futterman OTLs.

 

[bonzo75]

People who have been in the SME listening room considered it the best recorded opera experience in their life. The four ESL63 Quad's were however heavily modified.

If I was just an opera listener I would have stayed with a system I hosted long ago - ESL63 with Futterman OTLs.

That can be said for many who had their favorite rooms. We also don't know what their opera experience is. And, not saying stats (nor horns), can't do it well. It is all about the last man standing. Stats across the board are weak at baritone chest for sure (again, relatively).

 

[microstrip]

That can be said for many who had their favorite rooms. We also don't know what their opera experience is. And, not saying stats (nor horns), can't do it well. It is all about the last man standing. Stats across the board are weak at baritone chest for sure (again, relatively).

Surely, anyone is free to have his opinion. Along twenty years I have read reports from all kind of reviewers, music critics and knowledgeable audiophiles, even people who did not love opera. They were unanimous in their appreciation concerning opera in this very large room and the life feeling of it for opera.

 

[bonzo75]

Surely, anyone is free to have his opinion. Along twenty years I have read reports from all kind of reviewers, music critics and knowledgeable audiophiles, even people who did not love opera. They were unanimous in their appreciation concerning opera in this very large room and the life feeling of it for opera.

I too have said it here that stats and valves are best on opera. I changed.

 

[gilles13]

At opera you are generally at a certain distance but in a recital it's different. I have been there and was between 3 and 4 meters from Tereza Berganza singing beside a concert piano. The sound was incredible, the room was big with a few hundreds of seats. The sound level was very high, no sono there. It's a unique experience. And I regularly attends opera.

 

[bonzo75]

Mirco, since you mentioned the SME room which had Quads, one of my favorite audiophile trips has been to someone who has a Quad Multichannel with a large screen in the middle where we watched Carmen on Bluray.