Amps for Ron to consider

[PeterA]

Hi Ron,

I suggest that you finish your room and set up your system and live with it a while, fine tuning it as best you can. Then, once you have a very good sense of how it sounds, what you like and dislike, then it might be appropriate to consider replacing a component that you think will improve what ever area of weakness you identify. You may find that your VTL amps are not the weak link. Who knows?

Is this amp discussion just an exercise to research possible future options, or are you planning to buy a new pair of amps before your system is back up and running? Hasn't it been a couple of years since your system was assembled? Why are you inquiring about different amps already without first hearing them in your new space with your new speakers? It kind of reminds me of Marc's threads about replacing his analog source before he even hears the one he already owns in his new room after a lengthy absence.

If you tell us why you are investigating alternatives to your VTL and why you think that you may not like them with the Pendragons, then perhaps recommendations will be more specific or focused on a particular sonic solution.

 

[Argonaut]

Hi Ron,

I suggest that you finish your room and set up your system and live with it a while, fine tuning it as best you can. Then, once you have a very good sense of how it sounds, what you like and dislike, then it might be appropriate to consider replacing a component that you think will improve what ever area of weakness you identify. You may find that your VTL amps are not the weak link. Who knows?

Is this amp discussion just an exercise to research possible future options, or are you planning to buy a new pair of amps before your system is back up and running? Hasn't it been a couple of years since your system was assembled? Why are you inquiring about different amps already without first hearing them in your new space with your new speakers? It kind of reminds me of Marc's threads about replacing his analog source before he even hears the one he already owns in his new room after a lengthy absence.

If you tell us why you are investigating alternatives to your VTL and why you think that you may not like them with the Pendragons, then perhaps recommendations will be more specific or focused on a particular sonic solution.

Quite....live with VTL's driving the Pendragon's for a while ( remembering to SR Black them first ) then perhaps arrange a home demo of the CAT for starters.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

The prerequisites for an SE design putting out 100W+ leaves very little options of choices if that is a hardline requirement. You have Wavac and you have NAT and not much else. If you are looking for ease and headroom, that comes with higher powered amps (better components overall) vs the weaker transformers and power supplies in most low powered SET's.

Or maybe you just like triodes and should really listen to more of those both in SET and PP?

 

[dan31]

Wavestream V8 monoblocks or the El34 monos. Call the Analog Room in San Jose Ca.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Joshua, I keep telling Ron he needs those Magmas.
He absolutely loved the SE2SEs at mine, from all accounts the Magmas are truly stellar.
Not just the overall power in pure Class A, but the absolutely monstrous transformers and psus that mean the 170W/ch is probably conservatively rated, and outputs w no strain.

 

[Barry2013]

Ron I have refrained from making any suggestions up to now because I'm not a valve fan, but can I commend to you the new Vitus SS 103 reviewed in the November HiFi Plus by Chris Thomas. He is a top class professional guitarist who knows what he is talking about and writes very well too.
What is particularly impressive about his reviews, and this one in particular, is not only the quality of the review itself, but the identification of the qualities to look for in an audio component.
In fact whether or not that is of interest to you, or to anybody else, it really is worth reading for the sheer educational value of his review.
So herewith FWIW

 

[bonzo75]

Ron I have refrained from making any suggestions up to now because I'm not a valve fan, but can I commend to you the new Vitus SS 103 reviewed in the November HiFi Plus by Chris Thomas. He is a top class professional guitarist who knows what he is talking about and writes very well too.
What is particularly impressive about his reviews, and this one in particular, is not only the quality of the review itself, but the identification of the qualities to look for in an audio component.
In fact whether or not that is of interest to you, or to anybody else, it really is worth reading for the sheer educational value of his review.
So herewith FWIW

Barry I recommended him Vitus much earlier, also Danon of mono and stereo uses it on Pendragon and Kodo, and Ron liked what he heard of the SM 102 at Rhapsody, but he does not want a transistor in his chain. We have to get him there slowly. First step kronzilla, so that he gets transistor in the input stage

 

[Ron Resnick]

let's see. looks like these are your check lists;

List A; non-negotiables.

tubes, class A, 150+ watts, smooth and edge free and a bit forgiving, a 'sound' you love.

List B; integration.

linear enough in the upper and mid bass under duress to integrate perfectly with the active solid state powered bass towers,

List C; intangibles.

enough authority for great 1st watt on Gryphon panels, current state of art refinement, lively, low noise, ultra detail.

----a few good to great List A choices, but List A with B get's tougher, then with A + B + all of C get's even tougher.

have fun Ron.

Yes, indeed, Mike! That is the mission statement!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Not saying more power will always result in more ease

We want both, quality watts with power. Like Mike has.

+1

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,

I suggest that you finish your room and set up your system and live with it a while, fine tuning it as best you can. Then, once you have a very good sense of how it sounds, what you like and dislike, then it might be appropriate to consider replacing a component that you think will improve what ever area of weakness you identify. You may find that your VTL amps are not the weak link. Who knows?

Is this amp discussion just an exercise to research possible future options, or are you planning to buy a new pair of amps before your system is back up and running? Hasn't it been a couple of years since your system was assembled? Why are you inquiring about different amps already without first hearing them in your new space with your new speakers? It kind of reminds me of Marc's threads about replacing his analog source before he even hears the one he already owns in his new room after a lengthy absence.

If you tell us why you are investigating alternatives to your VTL and why you think that you may not like them with the Pendragons, then perhaps recommendations will be more specific or focused on a particular sonic solution.

This amp discussion in my mind is "just an exercise to research possible future options." I definitely am not "planning to buy a new pair of amps before [my] system is back up and running."

The MB-750s will be somewhere between "fine" and "great." With their original capacitors I believe stock MB-750s are not up to current standards of transparency achieved by the current generation of tube amplifiers (e.g., NAT, Jadis Mk. II, CAT JL7, VTL Siegfrieds, KR Audio, etc.) By switching to JA200 Mk. II I can avoid a bit of distortion (going from Class AB to Class A), keep the high power (200 watts), and achieve greater transparency -- without giving up a warm, natural, beautiful, all-tube midrange.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wavestream V8 monoblocks or the El34 monos. Call the Analog Room in San Jose Ca.

Wavestream seems too one-man band/garage shop for me.

Is the V8 Class A?

What is the output on the EL34 amplifier? Is that a parallel SET design?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Joshua, I keep telling Ron he needs those Magmas.
He absolutely loved the SE2SEs at mine, from all accounts the Magmas are truly stellar.
Not just the overall power in pure Class A, but the absolutely monstrous transformers and psus that mean the 170W/ch is probably conservatively rated, and outputs w no strain.

Marc, do you actually know anybody who right now owns and is using NAT Audio Magma New amplifiers? I really want to get some hands-on report about dealing with those GM-100 tubes.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Barry I recommended him Vitus much earlier, also Danon of mono and stereo uses it on Pendragon and Kodo, and Ron liked what he heard of the SM 102 at Rhapsody, but he does not want a transistor in his chain. We have to get him there slowly. First step kronzilla, so that he gets transistor in the input stage

Thank you, Barry.

HAHAHAHA Kedar!

For the record, as much as I love tubes, at Rhapsody I found the Kondo on the Magico M3 to be a little soft all around and not adequately transparent and detailed. I felt like it was a very traditional tubey kind of tube sound. I preferred the Vitus there, but it was an outlying data point.

 

[DaveyF]

This amp discussion in my mind is "just an exercise to research possible future options." I definitely am not "planning to buy a new pair of amps before [my] system is back up and running."

The MB-750s will be somewhere between "fine" and "great." With their original capacitors I believe stock MB-750s are not up to current standards of transparency achieved by the current generation of tube amplifiers (e.g., NAT, Jadis Mk. II, CAT JL7, VTL Siegfrieds, KR Audio, etc.) By switching to JA200 Mk. II I can avoid a bit of distortion (going from Class AB to Class A), keep the high power (200 watts), and achieve greater transparency -- without giving up a warm, natural, beautiful, all-tube midrange.

Ron, what you stated makes perfect sense.
I am amazed at how great the new Jadis Mk2’s are. My JA30mk2’s are easily some of the best sounding amps I have ever heard....and I have been in this hobby for over 40 years!
The new design is so much more transparent and resolving than any other amp I have heard. So much so, that I believe anyone considering any new tube amp absolutely needs to hear the new Jadis Mk2’s, if at all possible.
Considering the new JA200 mk2’s would certainly be very high on my list.

 

[morricab]

Dear Brad,

Does not the KR VA200 have a transistor input stage?

I think the Joule Electras are Class A OTL.

Thank you, again!

No, the Joule Electras are not pure Class A...they are high bias AB. The KR, like all KRs, is a transistor/tube hybrid. Transistor input/driver and triode output.

 

[morricab]

Dear Brad, it is not about need. It is about headroom for musical ease and absence of compression or hardening. See MikeL posts to this effect. (I have the same view on this.)

Understood, but IMO you are sacrificing the purity of sound within your power envelope in order to gain that headroom for dynamic peaks. If your first watt is compromised...

 

[morricab]

So do I. In fact Berning distributor recommends 200w quadrature over the 30w for horns. Avant-garde uses 150w amps to run their trios. Henk puts in 2 kw. Though for horns I am ok with less

Avantgarde's own amps sound like crap...sorry they do...headroom be damned. I just heard them again recently at the Swiss High End show and it made my ears bleed. If Berning recommends a 200watt amp for horns then what in god's name is the 30watt amp for?? Why bother even making it as nothing is more sensitive than horns. Henk's STAX amps are not 2kW.

 

[bonzo75]

Avantgarde's own amps sound like crap...sorry they do...headroom be damned. I just heard them again recently at the Swiss High End show and it made my ears bleed. If Berning recommends a 200watt amp for horns then what in god's name is the 30watt amp for?? Why bother even making it as nothing is more sensitive than horns. Henk's STAX amps are not 2kW.

not the Stax, but the Stax plus the the ones he uses to bi amp

 

[KeithR]

Understood, but IMO you are sacrificing the purity of sound within your power envelope in order to gain that headroom for dynamic peaks. If your first watt is compromised...

Alternatively, not sure why someone would build a SOTA system sacrificing dynamics and scale. There is a happy medium.

 

[GMKF]

What about custom amps Ron ?
One of Gryphon Tube amp ?