Amazing Documentary From Netflix

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Steve, I didn't know this case would arouse my interest as it did. ...But it has reached lot of people all over the world now.

Every single day there is more news...it just doesn't slow down. And the more you dig the more there is.

It's supremely important because it's about our Justice Criminal System. ...Scientists and big lawyer firms with their top lawyers from all over are looking @ it as we speak.

We don't like criminals; killers, murderers, rapists, bad drug dealers (bad dope killing our children...heroin), child molesters, corrupted police officers, corrupted judges and prosecutors and lawyers, anywhere...Mexico, Columbia, Brazil, America, USA, Canada. ...Anywhere else in the world, but starting right here.
So, when we see it in our own country we'd better do something about it because if we don't nobody else will. And if we don't we ain't worth much...all the great music and films in the world won't make it disappear just like that...right.

Sure, I'd rather talk about movies, jazz ?, new Dolby Atmos immersive sound, UHD OLED TVs that are so thin that you can roll them up and carry them with you anywhere. It just happened that this case, right now, has taken a little of my interest. And, it has a big impact on many other real life things that are related. Injustice is real, and within a very short distance from our own day-to-day life. It touches us all, and this guy (Steven Avery) already spent 18 years in jail for a crime that he did NOT commit. ...And two years later this! ...Now another 8 years in jail! ...And there is Brendan too, who @ the time was only sixteen...and won't be eligible for parole till he's 56! ...It is simply too much...and it's about time to draw the line about abuse of power and total corruption, lies and lies, and absolute deception from our justice system with many people who work in it to protect the innocent and lock up the real criminals...themselves...the police!
It's like they have immunity, a clean bill, carte blanche to exercise their abuse of power. ...Like nobody can touch them. It is sickening and I'm just tired of it.
Our world is upside down, it's time to put it straight.

@ the end it's good for me and it's good for all others who also want a world that runs within a well oiled and just machine. And it's us who contribute to the well maintenance of that machine. If someone keeps breaking it, we need to get rid of them. ...All them crooks in the police force with their abuse of power...and all others related to them and supporting them. ...And right to the top...the governor....from the prosecutors, the detectives, sheriff sergeants and lieutenants. ...And many more ...
 

andrew_stenhouse

New Member
Oct 26, 2015
229
1
0
Sydney, Australia
So along comes this....Do you believe her or is she just trying to extend her 15 minutes of fame?


I don't think she is a credible person. There is incentive for her to lie - money, limelight, perhaps a shortened prison sentence. And why now?

She ascribes to Mr Avery a degree of cunning and intelligence which is so obviously absent.

For my part it doesn't undermine the fundamental issues with the trial process, and the reasonable doubt that must flow from the evidence, and the manner in which it was obtained and presented.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
So along comes this....Do you believe her or is she just trying to extend her 15 minutes of fame?


She was paid by the Manitowoc County police...to tell more lies. IMO

* This case is so bizarre...so many lies by so many people...so many weird things happened...and the police are no angel either.
The prosecutor Ken Kratz is more than bizarre, he's surreal and best to stay far far away from this race of animals.

For my next vacation I just want to make sure that Wisconsin is not on the map.

As for Steven and Brendan, without looking @ all the fake and illegal evidence...I just don't know @ 100%. And if I would have been a member of that jury, that doubt would have been a vote of non-guilty.

Is Steven the real mastermind behind all of this, and did he hypnotize Brendan? ...And did he traumatize the police so much that it came to that!
Did he kill her for revenge against the police? ...To show them how masterful he got in jail after spending 18 years for vaporware!
Or was the police and the governor of the state scared to death by that $36 million lawsuit?

Why they don't hire a professional psychologist/psychic to find out?

And Nancy...about that *67 phone call(s). ...Is that new evidence that she like to share with the prosecution? ...It's not for money...she's already very very rich.
* I can't stand listening to her...she irritates me deep down to the bone, but that's just my own impression; it has nothing to do with her...only her style.

Sometimes I'm thinking that I should get away from stuff like that, because it expands to a much wider area of our society, and the farther away we stay the better.
But here it's important to see the prosecution and police tactics; they are despicable to the lowest dominating human factor. ...Totally unreal and shouldn't exist. But it does and that's the true sad reality of this entire system everywhere on this planet, and not just in Manitowoc County.

Who knows; my best guess is that he will be released from jail, along with Brendan, because of a bunch of lies and illegalities.
Did he really kill Teresa? If he did he's innocent till proven guilty. If the police is smart they'll use the legal means and proper procedures...they certainly did not.

Somehow all those people are guilty more or less. The ones more we've seen them in that documentary. The ones less they are getting more as one day follows the next one. Brief, there are not many angels around. ...Except for Teresa. It is so sad that she's not here anymore...she looked so vulnerable and very very nice. Her killer(s) should be punished, but without any reasonable doubt...right?
The police screwed up big time. ...And along lots of other people as well. The lawyer for Brendan should be sent to Mars, and Ken Kratz to Jupiter.
And everyone else to Pluto.
 
Last edited:

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
? http://gawker.com/steven-averys-defense-attorney-absolutely-doubts-aver-1753168855
?? http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-mur...-ken-kratz-criticism-netflix-series-nonsense/

- What we say sometimes in public (media, internet, phone, etc.) can sound peculiar. The way we interpret requires "advanced judgement" way of speech...IMO.
Try to make sense of what defense attorney Dean Strang said @ one point. ...No sweat; his words are very clear as to what he believes.

___________

??? http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...tersen-steven-avery-belongs-in-prison-w161780
???? http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...erys-lawyer-on-the-evidence-left-out-20160115

- Peterson (sheriff) believes that Avery is @ the right place (in jail) and for a long time.
But before that he was in there for 18 years and he wasn't @ the right place. The woman wrongfully identified him, and a later phone call revealing that the real murderer was not him, never was investigated...if the police would Steven would have save ten years (free instead of extra in jail).

___________

- Peterson said in court that it would have been "easier to kill Steven Avery than frame him". He admitted that it was a mistake...out of frustration ... whatever. Lol, it just makes no sense @ all saying stuff like that; it's like saying that planting evidence (key, bullet, etc.) is normal procedure by the police!

___________

* Who is Teresa's real killer, and when did it exactly happen, and where, how and why???
Is it Steven Avery? Is Brendan Dassey truthful? Where is all the blood? ...And what about those bones??? ...From a Canadian expert that you simply cannot have bones burned like that from a bond fire inside a fire pit, and burn barrel.
Then where are the bones coming from? ...And who they belong to? ...Could she have been burned somewhere else, with couple pieces of bone's fragments still showing some tissue for DNA identification?

Could this have been the perfect police framing? How far man can go to save his soul from $36,000,000?

Steven Avery, is he a mastermind? ...Someone so intelligent that he made us all believe that the police did it?

It don't really matter the questions above; what is is what we believe. And we haven't much anything concrete to believe much @ all, except that the police is corrupted deep deep down to their own bones. And eventually their bones will be cremated and turned to ashes.

Here's one more: If Steven is truly the killer, where should he be?

And last: Because we have a criminal justice system (without taking the law in our own hands), where some of the police officers (sheriffs, sergeants, lieutenant) and prosecutor and detectives and Brendan's defense attorney, some members of the jury, the judge, the governor, ... few others from Manitowock County, Wisconsin...should they be right now?

And the very last: Is it fair to contemplate other suspects?
 
Last edited:

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I admit; I was supremely naive. That documentary sure hit the spot in showing how desperate the police and prosecution and everyone else were in lying, forcing, planting, faking, doing everything except the right thing. ...Even all the lawyers, the filmmakers. They all do a job with a paycheck, and that's all.

The police is guilty big time; they just weren't smart enough to fight a mastermind killer (Steven Avery) with his mastermind associate (Brendan Dassey).
I say mastermind because both of them they foul us all...with their lies and bull. They played the perfect acting job; playing the innocent, and hiding behind a terrible deed, the rape and killing of Teresa.

I think that if you spend 18 years of your life in jail for a crime you did not commit, you're still screwed 100%. In jail it's like a drug; it will amplify the real you, like alcohol.
And in jail there is no better school to learn how to be a real bad axe for Steven. He learned a few tricks of the criminal trade...
Very sad... And Brendan didn't have the good support needed when he was young, and was hanging with not the right type...Steven Avery.

Steven said that one of his brothers did it. Brendan said that Steven did it. What a bunch!

Annyway, today my verdict is in: Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are guilty; Steven number one...and Brendan number two (witness of a crime and participating).
How truly sick and sad this entire story is! ...And the two young filmmakers did very good showing all the police corruption, and they also let us make our own mind if Steven and Brendan were guilty or not, by NOT providing us with all the proper tools!

So, for me there was also a big miscarriage of info from these two women filmmakers. ...Their aim was not fully accomplished in a 'stellar' manner.
What was missing in their documentary was as much important as what was in it. IMHO

And for what! ...Fame, money, displaced immoral human values of our society in face of desperate measures. ...Not being able to tell the difference between right and wrong.

Case closed!

? http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/making-a-murderer-nancy-grace-856328
 

RayDunzl

New Member
Jun 26, 2014
289
2
0
Tampa
Huh?

Did I miss something?
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Huh?

Did I miss something?

Yes Ray, and me too. Check that last link, from Nancy Grace's real perspective. It all makes sense now. Everyone is bad; the police, the prosecutor, Steven and Brendan, Brendan's lawyer, Lenk, Colborn, and the two young filmmakers acted irresponsibly too by omitting key evidence in their short documentary.

Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey should be free even if they are truly guilty. That's the very sad truth.
No doubt now for me that they raped and killed Teresa, but that case should have been thrown out because of a huge miscarriage of justice.

Many people should be totally ashamed, including the filmmakers and Netflix too.
And bravo Nancy Grace; she made the light very clear. I'm not in love with Nancy, but I sure do appreciate her sharp vision and operating mind.
She knows much more than all of us.

P.S. We cannot blame ourselves for having been mislead. That's the power of TV, the power of Netflix, the power of the media, the power of fame and money. Evil is in the missing... Way of speech; like incomplete, too quick to judge, ego, poor overall analysis from the messenger, inadequate morals and responsibilities, lack of true human values, priorities misplaced, all the human weaknesses...

Next case...Kathleen Zellner. ...And the Innocence Project.
 

RayDunzl

New Member
Jun 26, 2014
289
2
0
Tampa
I didn't watch the series, just a clip or two.

I thought maybe the last episode had been played and it was something like "fooled you (and us)" all the way through.

Ratings grab or similar.

I will admit that injustice served is a powerful draw when you get wrapped up in it, imagining, "Oh what if that were me!"
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I didn't watch the series, just a clip or two.
I thought maybe the last episode had been played and it was something like "fooled you (and us)" all the way through.
Ratings grab or similar.
I will admit that injustice served is a powerful draw when you get wrapped up in it, imagining, "Oh what if that were me!"

I don't blame you for not watching it in its entirety; it was incomplete anyway. We sure have been fooled to some extent. ...All of us.

But the two young lady filmmakers they said it before: Their doc was to show the justice system in operation, and that it did...but incomplete, missing essential elements. And I fully agree with Nancy Grace; that was irresponsible from them, to us all, the audience, and everyone else.

I learned, we all learned, and I hope the two documentary filmmakers they learned too. They might have a larger bank account today, but they account for less in my book of accountability/responsibility. ...Not the end of the world, just a fair mention...that's all.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
But if a shrewd lawyer can get a new piece of evidence introduced and gets him a new trial. It only takes one to hang a jury so anything is possible

Hmmm memory also brings back the criminal justice system in the matter of the People vs O.J. Simpson
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
But if a shrewd lawyer can get a new piece of evidence introduced and gets him a new trial. It only takes one to hang a jury so anything is possible

Hmmm memory also brings back the criminal justice system in the matter of the People vs O.J. Simpson

That's the thing; inside moral value versus job integrity...how to reconcile/elasticity of the two? ...Way of speech.

All the intelligent experts have enough material here to acquit, just like in O.J. Simpson's case. If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit.
But here they found them both guilty without strong evidence, with reasonable doubt, plus total miscarriage of justice due to police lies and planting some evidence; key and bullet and blood in the car. ...Makes no sense @ all but what does in this Manitowoc County!

Brief, the real rapists and killers (Steven and Brendan) should be free because of the very bad police's work and all the very bad people surrounding them.
That's how tragic this case truly is.

O.J. Simpson's lawyers knew he was guilty, and yet they did a very good job convincing the jury that he wasn't! ...That's their job, and their job they did, and they won. That's how 'our' system works; money gets you the best lawyers, and freedom. Not enough money gets you a jail vacation for x amount of time.

@ the end man makes his own justice. Irregardless of the laws and of the justice system; because it doesn't work in serving true justice. We created an imperfect system with imperfect people running it. ...As clearly seen here, again.

<> What I'm very interested in now (because there is closure for me now as to who killed Teresa); is what Kathleen Zellner is going to do next, in also working with the Innocence Project's own lawyer. ...I'm very interested in their direction. Because it's a very big mess to clean up real good. ...She's going to need a lot of Javex detergent, and well scissored manicure with scalpels to rub the surface of it all so that we can all see what's underneath in the true light. ...We already know, but her job is what she's good @.

___________

The tragedy: Teresa is dead. And Brendan is screwed for life in major part because of Steven.
But then, their families, the police, Steven's first trial and wrong conviction, eighteen years incarceration...not much help @ all.

The main difference between this case and O.J's case; O.J. was famous and live for all to follow the news as they were happening...the trial.
Steven was only famous because of his wrong conviction, and that second trial didn't have much live publicity; only when the documentary was released last month, on Netflix. ...Makes for real good TV show. ...And people make money with good TV shows. ...But not as even near much as in sci-fi flicks from Hollywood...The Force Awakens. Fiction is more rewarding financially than real life.
 
Last edited:

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bob

even though Nancy Grace portrays Steven and Brendon as guilty, bear in mind that I see her as no different as the zealous DA's for Manitowoc County or police of the same county. With her it is a matter of win at all costs regardless of what's right or wrong. I recall Nancy Grace in the following which IMO Bob made her no different than any other sensationalist

Nancy Grace's 'Vodka Mom' Commits Suicide


and this one

Nancy Grace Found Guilty in the death of Melinda Duckett

 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Wow, I've never seen those videos before! And yet she's making pile of money with her doctrine impediment on American TV watchers...couch potatoes lovers of soap operas and sensationalism...in America for sure...it sells big time on TV.

Anyway, I said before that I cannot stand her, but in this case here she brought what I believe is a valuable argument, I bought.
She sees through criminals with razor blades lips. She talks openly her mind without extreme prejudice. She was a prosecutor, and I would love to have her on my side for all the injustice, for all the bandits, low lifers, all the crap I've seen in my life; she'll be my perfect attorney/judge/advocate. Don't need to like someone to appreciate their good side.
Yes, she is radical, but she lost in the past and she needs to catapult that unfairness in her own fair way. She is very very vocal, to the point of ex-crucifixion @ the most irritation extreme. She kills with her voice, just her tone only! ...But in America it is permissible when you are a TV host. In audio forums it is different. ;-)

Alright, Nancy Grace is not a charming princess, she is a killer TV host for the insane. :D
However, in the case of Steven Avery; I agree with her. I am smart enough to go above my own zone of emotional discomfort. Everyone has some good in them, except the baddest of the baddest...like those guys from that other continent and radicals with only violence on their mind...revenge by killing.
But Nancy is not like that. :b ...She's a real b!!ch, but still with brain in her. She doesn't fully realize the impact she has on America; she thinks they all love her...and they do.
...Except for the ones who know better.

She has still some good left in her, or she wouldn't be on TV. TV must be good for people or the TV producers would be poor, and Nancy too.

* Brendan made a statement, we even heard a discussion he had with his mom: Steven raped and killed Teresa, and Brendan was accessory to all this mess because he didn't know better. For me; that makes the most sense, and not because I worked with delinquent teenagers in the past and with severely handicapped people...mentally. I won't go into this personal life experience because I swore to not divulge what I've seen a long time ago. ...But you can read stories on the internet and watch documentaries, or visit the state of Wisconsin, and the Manitowoc County...go there for some vacation time and to get drunk and high. :D

Ok, I'm humorous but the reality is stranger than fiction, often. For now I mentioned what I finally came to believe, and Nancy was the biggest and final influence.
In the coming days, weeks, more is going to surface, and with it I'll be flying high like all others following this story with all the newer developments.
It is my belief that Steven and Brendan are guilty. And few weeks ago I thought they were innocent. That's how confusing this all affair is for the brain of all people watching, listening and reading.

We all know that O.J. killed Nicole and her friend Ron. And we also know that he is getting older and rotting in jail for something else. That's life...unfair; and then...works in mysterious ways.

We don't condemn, we can't; we don't have the power to send people in jail...the police do. We gave them that power.
Kathleen is going to unearth some truth...watch her carefully proceed...
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
In that second video, Nancy asked the right question, and she didn't kill the young girl. ...That young girl was emotionally very weak, and she killed herself, committed suicide. She was just too weak to not appear on Nancy's show...she needed a good lawyer, and she didn't have.
And Nancy she just tended her hand, assisting her in committing suicide so that she can join her disappeared son...waiting for her on the other side of life.

In that first video, Nancy is exaggerating a little...what people are used to.

I don't mind talking about Nancy Grace; she ain't no graceful lady but still a lady. - Tom Jones.

<<>> If Steven Avery was truly not guilty of killing Teresa; he would have been free much earlier, and not spent another ten years in jail where he still is.

Brendan's mom noticed bleach on Brendan's pants. He helped Steven clean the murder scene. ...No doubt in my mind. Steven learned the mastering of killing in jail, the very best school to learn the tricks of the trade. The guy is not as stupid as he appears; he is even more stupid...he's a rapist and murderer.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing