Spirit has the ability to know exactly what is what doing in a whole chain without being familiar with any of the components
A question about room demands on speakers
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Spirit has the ability to know exactly what is what doing in a whole chain without being familiar with any of the components
Hmm Ked
I wonder what you would be saying if I said I wasn't sure about Justin's Duettas due to having reservations about that digital sheen?
When I was turned off Brian's Divas due to Spectral glare, I believe you criticised me for not recognising the ancillaries were affecting the sound negatively
So yes I am confident I can hear past ancillaries
I can hear that SS glare thing means I'm less likely to be convinced by SS on Apogees
And the flow on Duettas on Justin's 211s enabled me to seperate out his source
At least I'm open about my experiences
It's taken multiple mentions of yr Ayon experience for you to cough up the truth and say it clipped
If you're setting yrself up as our new taste meister, diligence AND openness needed
As usual, be my guest, and have it all ways to suit yr worldview
I wonder what you would be saying if I said I wasn't sure about Justin's Duettas due to having reservations about that digital sheen?
When I was turned off Brian's Divas due to Spectral glare, I believe you criticised me for not recognising the ancillaries were affecting the sound negatively
So yes I am confident I can hear past ancillaries
I can hear that SS glare thing means I'm less likely to be convinced by SS on Apogees
And the flow on Duettas on Justin's 211s enabled me to seperate out his source
At least I'm open about my experiences
It's taken multiple mentions of yr Ayon experience for you to cough up the truth and say it clipped
If you're setting yrself up as our new taste meister, diligence AND openness needed
As usual, be my guest, and have it all ways to suit yr worldview
Actually, my criticism was the same. How do you know it wasn't the kondo pre amp and cables with the spectral amp, rather than the spectral, causing the problem? Unheard of combo, and therefore incorrect to blame spectral till you break it down. My criticism is not about what you hear, but the fact that without isolating components you blame components
Ked, I have a pretty good idea
The Divas trial only ticked two boxes
Speed, and width
It failed on everything else
Warmth, depth, imaging, transparency, cohesiveness, bass extension etc etc etc
With an overwhelming ringing in the sound that was migraine inducing
The setup was wrong but I'll posit that the Spectrals were dominating the negatives
Justin's Duettas ticked every box
With the digital sheen I've heard in many other basic streaming options
I believe I'm confident in my assertion that I could hear past both spkrs to those factors creating signatures
But in one I really got the magic
What I also realise is that I can't trust yr personal taste as one to guide mine
You weren't truly forthcoming and transparent about yr Ayon experience
If you really feel Justin's 211s are not suited to his Duettas in his room, that is so beyond me
So these are my last words on all this before I derail my own thread
The Divas trial only ticked two boxes
Speed, and width
It failed on everything else
Warmth, depth, imaging, transparency, cohesiveness, bass extension etc etc etc
With an overwhelming ringing in the sound that was migraine inducing
The setup was wrong but I'll posit that the Spectrals were dominating the negatives
Justin's Duettas ticked every box
With the digital sheen I've heard in many other basic streaming options
I believe I'm confident in my assertion that I could hear past both spkrs to those factors creating signatures
But in one I really got the magic
What I also realise is that I can't trust yr personal taste as one to guide mine
You weren't truly forthcoming and transparent about yr Ayon experience
If you really feel Justin's 211s are not suited to his Duettas in his room, that is so beyond me
So these are my last words on all this before I derail my own thread
Barry, I've never yet heard a setup placed on the long wall that sounded totally convincing IMHO
Even at yrs it would be great to sit some way further back from yr YGs
But yr idea is food for thought
Btw, I'm a bit wowed by my long space
It really locks well w my Zus/NATs
And this is a major reason why I'm skeptical about dividing it up
And I love the ability to hit the skins behind my setup when the mood takes me
Even at yrs it would be great to sit some way further back from yr YGs
But yr idea is food for thought
Btw, I'm a bit wowed by my long space
It really locks well w my Zus/NATs
And this is a major reason why I'm skeptical about dividing it up
And I love the ability to hit the skins behind my setup when the mood takes me
Thekong, I've just remeasured my room
17'10" wide, 9'6" at max midline apex ht, (side walls 3'11" high), depth 37'8" (alcove beyond to be seperated from listening space used for music storage)
At present my Zus are 9' from front wall, I listen at 12', and have 15'8" behind me
Thoughts on this re standing waves, dipoles likely behaviour, optimal placement suggestions
Thanks in advance
17'10" wide, 9'6" at max midline apex ht, (side walls 3'11" high), depth 37'8" (alcove beyond to be seperated from listening space used for music storage)
At present my Zus are 9' from front wall, I listen at 12', and have 15'8" behind me
Thoughts on this re standing waves, dipoles likely behaviour, optimal placement suggestions
Thanks in advance
Hi Marc, the ratios of the new measurements are still quite close to multiples!
But then again, it may not be a problem at all with the slanted walls! So, before doing anything drastic, I would suggest you try moving the speakers according to Limage’s method and see if it works for you / your space. After you find the speaker’s location, you need to move your seat along the length of you room to find the best seating position.
As said before, with this method, whether the speaker is panel, conventional, dipole or boxed etc., doesn't really seem to make much of a difference. The only type of speaker we have not tried with this method is probably large multi-horns system.
But then again, it may not be a problem at all with the slanted walls! So, before doing anything drastic, I would suggest you try moving the speakers according to Limage’s method and see if it works for you / your space. After you find the speaker’s location, you need to move your seat along the length of you room to find the best seating position.
As said before, with this method, whether the speaker is panel, conventional, dipole or boxed etc., doesn't really seem to make much of a difference. The only type of speaker we have not tried with this method is probably large multi-horns system.
Oh, as I've always said the only constant in audio is there is no constant
In my prev 27x22 room, Zus were 5 from front wall, and in retrospect they were not performing there at their best
Blue58 has emailed to say in my 18x38 room, Golden Ratio could equate to Duettas 8.5 from front wall, listener both 14.5 from Duettas and rear wall, also avoiding this suboptimal 25%
In my prev 27x22 room, Zus were 5 from front wall, and in retrospect they were not performing there at their best
Blue58 has emailed to say in my 18x38 room, Golden Ratio could equate to Duettas 8.5 from front wall, listener both 14.5 from Duettas and rear wall, also avoiding this suboptimal 25%
Ked, can get them 8 wide w 2.75 outsides to each side wall, minimal interaction w descending eaves
One of the ironies of my move and wrangling of dedicated space was the assumption that a big space was needed for complex beasts like ribbons and horns
And what do I find at the end of this? Duettas and AG Duos well set up truly thrive in smaller spaces like Barry's and Justin's c18x12x8 rooms
Prior to fitting out my uber large space, I was considering using the downstairs guest bedroom as audio room, yes you guessed it...18x12x9!
However a good fit it would be for Duettas or Duos, it would not have served my Zus well w too close interaction w side walls, a no go for box spkrs
What could have been...
Save £50k on creating the loft...
chuck this budget at Jon Oakey Reality Audio Duettas...maybe £15k on eg s/h Gryphon...SGM server/Dac8 or Kuzma Stabi M w 4 Point...a few ancillaries...pop it all in the smaller space
But, actually no regrets
One can only do what is right at the time
The new space is WAY more suited to my Zus, and they remain the spkr to beat for my library, esp in this space that has transformed them
And I use what would have been the smaller audio room as my new clinic room to wk from home
The Audio Powers That Be still have me dancing on strings
One of the ironies of my move and wrangling of dedicated space was the assumption that a big space was needed for complex beasts like ribbons and horns
And what do I find at the end of this? Duettas and AG Duos well set up truly thrive in smaller spaces like Barry's and Justin's c18x12x8 rooms
Prior to fitting out my uber large space, I was considering using the downstairs guest bedroom as audio room, yes you guessed it...18x12x9!
However a good fit it would be for Duettas or Duos, it would not have served my Zus well w too close interaction w side walls, a no go for box spkrs
What could have been...
Save £50k on creating the loft...
chuck this budget at Jon Oakey Reality Audio Duettas...maybe £15k on eg s/h Gryphon...SGM server/Dac8 or Kuzma Stabi M w 4 Point...a few ancillaries...pop it all in the smaller space
But, actually no regrets
One can only do what is right at the time
The new space is WAY more suited to my Zus, and they remain the spkr to beat for my library, esp in this space that has transformed them
And I use what would have been the smaller audio room as my new clinic room to wk from home
The Audio Powers That Be still have me dancing on strings
1) Decide on speakers.
2) Plonk speakers in room.
3) Decide they don't work in that position.
4) Move speakers and listening position around a lot.
5) Can't get it to work.
6) Make room smaller with divide.
7) Repeat 3 and 4) over and over.
8) Pretty happy? Leave it or
9) Try some room treatments.
10) Whole thing was a disaster. Sell speakers.
I suspect you will get to 8.
One thing about Apogee sound. Go to the kitchen and get a piece of foil. Flick it. Observe the sound. There will always be some of the nature of that sound in Apogee reproduced sound, because, just like any other speaker the materials used to make the drive units impart character. For the Duetta the Kapton backed nature of the foil damps this somewhat, for pure foil there is no such damping. Should be most obvious in the mids.
Just making an interesting point.
2) Plonk speakers in room.
3) Decide they don't work in that position.
4) Move speakers and listening position around a lot.
5) Can't get it to work.
6) Make room smaller with divide.
7) Repeat 3 and 4) over and over.
8) Pretty happy? Leave it or
9) Try some room treatments.
10) Whole thing was a disaster. Sell speakers.
I suspect you will get to 8.
One thing about Apogee sound. Go to the kitchen and get a piece of foil. Flick it. Observe the sound. There will always be some of the nature of that sound in Apogee reproduced sound, because, just like any other speaker the materials used to make the drive units impart character. For the Duetta the Kapton backed nature of the foil damps this somewhat, for pure foil there is no such damping. Should be most obvious in the mids.
Just making an interesting point.
So Justin, you mean that hint of tinginess in yr Interstellas sound was not just the digitalness of yr streamer, but inherent in the spkrs ribbons material?
Most apparent on the uber cymbal breakdown on Genesis "Los Endos"
Most apparent on the uber cymbal breakdown on Genesis "Los Endos"
Put your speakers and chair on castors .. roll your own solution ..your room , your tastes .. add a dash of bass control and away you go ... it might take you months.
Ive just played Los Endos from Genesis a trick of the tail looking for that cymbal thing...is it the bit at the end of the track?
download REW (free) , fiddle with its room sim , its predicted response is very close to actual
You can play with all sorts of parameters .. size , position etc .. oh..and its free..
Ive just played Los Endos from Genesis a trick of the tail looking for that cymbal thing...is it the bit at the end of the track?
download REW (free) , fiddle with its room sim , its predicted response is very close to actual
You can play with all sorts of parameters .. size , position etc .. oh..and its free..
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Rodney, remember I'm coming from the point of being a very happy bunny w my NATs/Zus combination
The Duettas are a massive bonus as an injury time/penalty shoot out radical departure
But this joy comes w serious considerations/risks, esp in my room
Yep, it's the whole track tbh, just a great percussion masterwork
It's the track that played live leads to the drum workout so stellar on Duettas that Justin and Ked use to nail superiority
The cymbal work on this track on Justin's Apogees leaves you truly breathless
The Duettas are a massive bonus as an injury time/penalty shoot out radical departure
But this joy comes w serious considerations/risks, esp in my room
Yep, it's the whole track tbh, just a great percussion masterwork
It's the track that played live leads to the drum workout so stellar on Duettas that Justin and Ked use to nail superiority
The cymbal work on this track on Justin's Apogees leaves you truly breathless
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I'm saying there's an etched character to the sound from aluminium drivers. You hear it in metal cone speakers, too. I don't think I am saying anymore than that. The nature of the sound definitely changes with analogue.
No I was talking about the Zus. If Marc can get them about 9-10 ft apart then 14ft distance is pretty good and should energise the room well.
But of course this is only a starting point, the rest done by ear.
You've all this to come Ked. All very well listening to super systems to narrow down your decisions but once you assemble a system, that's when the real fun starts and the education begins.
Cheerio
Blue58
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