A/D converters for Needle Drops

[Dre_J]

What A/Ds are most of you using to create needle drop samples of your vinyl playback when the need arises?

BTW: This would be after RIAA from a phonostage's output.

Just wondering if these are 24/96, 24/192, DSD, etc. A/Ds being used.

Cost of such devices is also of interest.

If you have used several of them, maybe categorize along the ratings of Good-Better-Best in terms of your personal observations of what captures more of the analog chain in this process.

Thanks,
Dre

 

[Bruce B]

The best sounding and most efficient for under $10k, is the Korg MR2000s. They have been discontinued, but you can readily find them on the used market.
The Tascam DA-3000 should be shipping within the next month. Looks promising since it has digital in/out to use with an outboard converter if you don't like the sound of the on-board converters. Both units can be had for around $1k

 

[Dre_J]

Thanks Bruce!

 

[Dre_J]

I'm very thankful for Bruces quick response.

I am a little surprised there are not any additional listings of what is being used by additional WBF members.

If anyone else would like to share, I'm sure we would all appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Dre

 

[Bruce B]

If you want to go the inexpensive route, it will take a little bit of a learning curve.

One option is the Channel D Pure Vinyl. The software is very intuitive, but with limited options.

The other option is the freeware Audacity. It has a greater learning curve, but will give you more options for editing your music.

Both of these above will need an external A-D converter. There are several that will work such as the Apogee Duet, Focusrite or PreSonus. Here is what I found at Sweetwater.


At full tilt boogie you can go with the Grimm AD1/OC1, Playback Designs MPD-5 and Sonoma workstation, which i use for a cool $40k

 

[cjfrbw]

I just use the analog input of my mac mini or a mac powerbook with Spark XL software using mini plugs. There are lots of recording softwares, some free or at low cost.

Seems to work fine, can record 24/48 and Spark will down sample for CD recording. I have no way of directly comparing to other methods, but the CD's seem to get compliments (sometimes) when I play them at the shows. The computer prints the CD's.

Alesis makes some products that are used to good effect. Alesis Masterlinks can be had for pretty low dollars on ebay etc., has hard drive, can record at 96/24 and down sample for CD recording etc.

 

[Dre_J]

If you want to go the inexpensive route, it will take a little bit of a learning curve.

One option is the Channel D Pure Vinyl. The software is very intuitive, but with limited options.

The other option is the freeware Audacity. It has a greater learning curve, but will give you more options for editing your music.

Both of these above will need an external A-D converter. There are several that will work such as the Apogee Duet, Focusrite or PreSonus. Here is what I found at Sweetwater.


At full tilt boogie you can go with the Grimm AD1/OC1, Playback Designs MPD-5 and Sonoma workstation, which i use for a cool $40k

Thanks Bruce. I've used Audacity with a couple A/Ds that were limited to 24-bit/96kHz in the past. I think Jazdoc has one of my drops from that go-round a few years ago. Although it sounds good, It isn't even close to the "live" playback of the vinyl. There is a lot of detail and low level information that seems to be lost in that translation.

I'm slightly interested in trying a DSD/DXD or 24-bit/192kHz needle drop to see if it does better.


My reason for the post was mostly to see what others are using and to see what I could rip/grab for playback on a couple digital rigs at RMAF.

Dre

 

[Dre_J]

I just use the analog input of my mac mini or a mac powerbook with Spark XL software using mini plugs. There are lots of recording softwares, some free or at low cost.

Seems to work fine, can record 24/48 and Spark will down sample for CD recording. I have no way of directly comparing to other methods, but the CD's seem to get compliments (sometimes) when I play them at the shows. The computer prints the CD's.

Alesis makes some products that are used to good effect. Alesis Masterlinks can be had for pretty low dollars on ebay etc., has hard drive, can record at 96/24 and down sample for CD recording etc.

Thanks for sharing your process.

Dre

 

[rbbert]

I've been intrigued by the new Ayre reviewed recently by JA in Stereophile. Pricier than the Tascam/Korg, but 10% of the cost of the Grimm. There's also the Sound Devices 722, which gives you a field recorder in addition to the A>D and D>A convertors.

 

[asiufy]

AFAIK, you'll still need something to record to with the Ayre, like a computer or workstation.
With the Korg (and likely the Tascam too) everything's in there, since it records on its built-in HD, and you can later retrieve the file via USB.


alexandre

 

[Bruce B]

AFAIK, you'll still need something to record to with the Ayre, like a computer or workstation.
With the Korg (and likely the Tascam too) everything's in there, since it records on its built-in HD, and you can later retrieve the file via USB.


alexandre

That's right. I have the Ayre QA-9 as well and it's a great converter. The new Tascam records to SD cards.

Charlie says the QA-9 at 192kHz is just as good (or better) than DSD.... Testing now!

 

[microstrip]

Does anyone have experience with a tweaked Korg MR2000s?

 

[mep]

For some reason, I dislike the term "needle drops" almost as much as I dislike the term "harmonic spray." I personally can't get too excited about converting LPs to digital because I have no use for that in my system. I guess I would want to know why you would want to make digital copies of LPs. What are you going to do with them?

 

[Dre_J]

For some reason, I dislike the term "needle drops" almost as much as I dislike the term "harmonic spray."

Just for you Mark: I'll call it Converting Analog to Digital Storage (CADS). I didn't intend to have the term poopoo the question. If you have a better term that's less burring to you, please share. I don't know what harmonic spray is but I don't think I want any of it on me.

I personally can't get too excited about converting LPs to digital because I have no use for that in my system.

Neither do I.

I guess I would want to know why you would want to make digital copies of LPs. What are you going to do with them?

Let me just use one reason for now. If there is music I only have on vinyl or is only available on vinyl :
1) That I want to listen to somewhere else.
1) That I want to share with a friend I'm visiting who wants to hear the music but doesn't have a vinyl rig
2) That I want to show someone who doesn't have vinyl that our music isn't snap-crackle-pop
3) That I want to take with me to play on a digital rig when I'm away from home (RMAF)
4) That I want to play on rigs that I'm not to sure the analog is setup well or being handled carefully enough to hand over my hard to find disc.
5) ....

Just pointing out there are some legitimate reasons to inquire about making copies. They may not be what you would do but they seem reasonable to me.

Then again, I'd rather hear my vinyl in it's native format rather than a copy but sometimes the choice is a digital copy or go without.

Dre

 

[Bruce B]

Just for you Mark: I'll call it Converting Analog to Digital Storage (CADS). I didn't intend to have the term poopoo the question. If you have a better term that's less burring to you, please share.
Dre

LP or Vinyl transfers
LP or Vinyl Digital transfers

 

[JackD201]

For some reason, I dislike the term "needle drops" almost as much as I dislike the term "harmonic spray." I personally can't get too excited about converting LPs to digital because I have no use for that in my system. I guess I would want to know why you would want to make digital copies of LPs. What are you going to do with them?

I started a similar thread before this one. With my listening room now being gutted and myself limited to only digital, I sure wish I had done some of those recordings. Tascam unfortunately is taking their sweet time. I should've taken up Micro on his Korg offer!

 

[asiufy]

Does anyone have experience with a tweaked Korg MR2000s?

I got one from Bruce, and don't regret it. Don't know exactly what was tweaked on it, but it's great.
Love the results with DSD128, a bit less so with 24/192.
Don't know how a standard unit would compare... But even without tweaking, I believe it's a great deal, and very handy.



alexandre

 

[garylkoh]

I guess I would want to know why you would want to make digital copies of LPs. What are you going to do with them?

I make copies of my direct-to-disc albums to listen in the car, or even on my music server.

I too use a tweaked Korg to make my V2D's. Todd Garfinkle uses a tweaked Korg (but his is more tweaked than mine) for all of the latest MA Recordings titles. I changed out all the coupling caps to Nichicon Muse Bipolars and also changed out the buffer opamps in the balanced inputs. I find the Korg a lot easier than a computer, Audicity, etc. as the Korg records directly (analog as well as digital).

When we did the Digital vs Analog here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2632-The-Digital-Analog-Dialectic
we used the ADC built into the Burmester Ph100 phono stage, and I recorded some of that using the Weiss Firewire input on-the-fly, and Bruce recorded the files using his Korg.

When I did a comparison between recording on 5.6MHz DSD on the Korg and 24/96 output from the Ph100, I slightly preferred the results from the Korg. YMMV.

 

[mep]

Back in the old days, I used to make copies of LPs onto high-quality cassette tapes (and yes, there is such a thing for those who don't believe) so I could listen to them in my car even if I had the option of listening to CD. I currently have no interest in converting any of my LPs to PCM files regardless of resolution. I have recorded a few LPs over to CD, but I just can't get excited about it. I have a cheap Sony CD recorder which actually has a CD player on one side and a CD recorder on the other side. I went from the record out on my preamp and into the record in on the CD recorder side and made some CDs. If anyone is interested, I will give it to you if you want to pay shipping. I might have used the original box to pack something else in, but hey, what do you want for free? Fremer used to use the Alexis which I think was a 24/96 recorder and he claimed to make old women cry with his recordings. I think they are dirt cheap on the used market now.

As far as the term "needle drop" goes, it just doesn't sound right. Kind of like "rare antique drop" or "newborn baby drop." When I first heard the term, I thought it meant that people were only playing snippets of a song vice an actual recording of an entire song or album side.

 

[asiufy]

I agree. When I fist saw this term, I had to stop and think it through to figure out what it meant... I also thought it meant an LP transcription of a section of a song.

Anyway, I much prefer "LP transcription".


alexandre