Frank and I were creating massive drift over on the Devaliet thread, talking about minor distortions and their effect on imaging. This segues perfectly into something that has occurred to me often, that pinpoint imaging and what many audiophiles call "sound stage" are very different things, with very different requirements. Thinking I'm probably not the only one who has these strange thoughts, a new thread seemed appropriate. So here is my last post from the other thread, to get things started:
Got it. I thought for a moment that like America and England, we were separated by a common language . Not so. I know exactly what you're talking about and have heard it often without attempting to. I listen in a near field configuration and to a lot of 50s jazz recorded very well in mono. In the near field, there is no need to shuffle around. Lean one way or another and the music moves with you. Lean forward and the image moves back. With the speakers toed in a bit, I've even leaned in until my head was between them and was amazed to find that the music was still dead center, seemingly hovering slightly behind the speakers. This kind of precise imaging is not realistic in the sense that it is like a live event, but it is a remarkable phenomenon to behold, and I personally prefer it to what most audiophiles refer to as "sound stage," (all mileage is free to vary, of course) as I'm trying to reproduce the recording, not an imagined event. I also agree that while the drivers and the way they're put together is important for staging, electronic component integrity is critical to creating the effect we're talking about.
We're way off topic here and I apologize to the board for the thread drift. But after some initial thrashing about, Frank, I've really enjoyed the conversation. Perhaps we should continue it in another thread? Tell you what: I'll go start one called Imaging or Sound Stage? Perhaps some others will join in.
Tim
Originally Posted by fas42
Sorry to confuse you! Once experienced, the words I use to describe the phenomenon make sense; it's just a bit difficult to get the concept across at first ...
There are many variations to this sound experience, so I will try describing one of the other ones. Put on a true mono recording that is of very good recording quality, probably something from the 50's or 60's, that has a lot of depth to it, a good natural acoustic has been captured in the performance, where it is clear that the performers are not right on top of the microphones. Start by standing in the centre as if you had just got up from your normal listening seat, obviously the music will appear in the middle between the speakers. Then start shuffling sideways, say to the right, still facing directly in front towards the line between the speakers: if all goes well the music will follow you, meaning that the sound no longer appears to be coming from the centre of the speakers but is now closer to the right hand speaker, directly in line with where you're looking straight in front. If you look at the right speaker at this point you should have no sense of any sound coming from it. If all goes well you should be able to get all the way to the inside edge of the right speaker at normal listening distance with no sense of any sound coming from that right speaker.
Then, still in line with the inside edge of the right speaker, start shuffling directly forward. If you've hit the jackpot you should be able to get to totally next to that edge of the speaker still with the musical images directly in front of you, and no sense of anything coming from the right speaker.
Does that make sense and work with your system?
Frank
Got it. I thought for a moment that like America and England, we were separated by a common language . Not so. I know exactly what you're talking about and have heard it often without attempting to. I listen in a near field configuration and to a lot of 50s jazz recorded very well in mono. In the near field, there is no need to shuffle around. Lean one way or another and the music moves with you. Lean forward and the image moves back. With the speakers toed in a bit, I've even leaned in until my head was between them and was amazed to find that the music was still dead center, seemingly hovering slightly behind the speakers. This kind of precise imaging is not realistic in the sense that it is like a live event, but it is a remarkable phenomenon to behold, and I personally prefer it to what most audiophiles refer to as "sound stage," (all mileage is free to vary, of course) as I'm trying to reproduce the recording, not an imagined event. I also agree that while the drivers and the way they're put together is important for staging, electronic component integrity is critical to creating the effect we're talking about.
We're way off topic here and I apologize to the board for the thread drift. But after some initial thrashing about, Frank, I've really enjoyed the conversation. Perhaps we should continue it in another thread? Tell you what: I'll go start one called Imaging or Sound Stage? Perhaps some others will join in.
Tim