I in person think its one of the best carts i ever heard (and i heard A LOT! ) if not THE best.
IMHO its better then my Anna, GFA, Etna sl, Miyajima madake... and more then a few very very heavy High end respected Cart's we got between some friends.
Techdas Air Force 3 VS Clearaudio Master Innovation
- Thread starter howiebrou
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I in person think its one of the best carts i ever heard (and i heard A LOT! ) if not THE best.
IMHO its better then my Anna, GFA, Etna sl, Miyajima madake... and more then a few very very heavy High end respected Cart's we got between some friends.
Only between the 3 AF nodels. AF1P pending. Only 2 clients of mine have MIs. One is very happy with his MI with CA arm and Goldie S and the other has an MI but an AF2 not an AF3. Different arms, carts and phono for each.
Yes there is a color to the sound, the color lessens with each model up.
Not my premium. It's been sold. Titanium came with it David. We do have Duralumin and SS to try too. I never bothered with the Acrylic.
We are scheduling a group upgrade from 1s to 1Ps here. They will send the parts and one of the engineers. The only difference will be the aesthetics. No shiny black bands and leveling knobs and same control panels.
We are scheduling a group upgrade from 1s to 1Ps here. They will send the parts and one of the engineers. The only difference will be the aesthetics. No shiny black bands and leveling knobs and same control panels.
How does the AF3 compare to the older Micro Seiki tables like the 5000/8000? I like the smaller footprint and multiple arms, but I have to wonder if the more massive chassis and arm mounting on the AF2 and AF1 are responsible in part for the less colored sound. I am speculating because I have only heard the AF1 and not the 2 or 3.
It's funny, the AF3 seems to be quite polarising. Lots of people like it and lots really don't like it. You don't get many middle of the road comments. I guess it might be quite sensitive to isolation, certainly more than the AF2 or AF1 which have a suspension.
Most people agree that the AF3 is a lesser table than its big brothers. But that is beyond the point, as they are in a different price range. The big question is how the AF3 compares to other well regarded suspensionless TTs in the same price range such as Kuzma, TW Acustic, Brinkmann or others?
Very different sound Peter, even the Micro 5000 & 8000 sound quite different from one another but that's expected with different materials, mass, platter and bearing designs of each.
david
Not polarizing at all Howie, it is what it is only trying to give you an idea what it sounds like which I'm not sure if we're helping since it's in the context of other tables that you might not have heard either.
david
Yes I am one of those--I've posted earlier -I compared the AF1 to the MS 8000
I preferred the 8000
YVMV
BruceD
It's all useful stuff David and thank you to everyone for chiming in. The limitations of a discussion forum are what they are and it's good to get people's impression but ultimately hearing the tables for yourself is the only way. I have heard all the AF models and so far that experience hasn't compelled me to buy any......yet!
Thanks
Howie
That's interesting
What were your differences you perceived?
As someone who back off from buying a AF1 after hearing 1, and 3 I am interested in your views?
Hello David, this post has me very intrigued. Could you elaborate a bit on the statement in bold? Did you start a small production run of these based on the set of plans that you have? Will they be similar to the one that is in your collection and the table that everyone raves about? Will they be commercially available or will the handful go to a select group of "friends and family"? I'm afraid to even ask about the cost, and I'm sure it is a closely held secret.
Hi Peter,
There already was an upgraded version designed by AS when the Japanese tt market collapsed so it never went into production, it's this new model that I've been working on for the last two years to get made. This version is slightly bigger and heavier than the old one with a modified platter design. The new motor and motor controller are absolutely unique and are key elements of the overall sound. No servo no feedback loop, synchronous AC motor, 33/45/78 powerful and with enough torque to keep constant speed for thread drive even with this massive platter. I'm afraid to say it but the combination of the new motor/motor controller and the built in upgrades will leave old one in the dust and that one is already head and shoulders above everything else. I know this because the first batch of the motors are already here, I was expecting an improvement over the original motor but never to the extent that I'm hearing, it's night and day. Unfortunately due to it's nature the entire production run will be limited to 4-6 units, each one individually hand machined. There are two coming in late November to early December, another two are planned for March-April and hopefully one or two sometime after that which I'll keep for myself so at least a couple will be available for sale. The first one is reserved by one of our friends here, he can spill the beans if he wants to now
. Given today's market costs pricing is quite sane for what this turntable is, direct to end user will be in the AF-1 range but sonically and ergonomically it's in a very extra ordinary class. You might be interested in this there's also a smaller model coming, the AS-800. I already heard the prototype it's about similar size and with very comparable sound to the Micro Seiki SX-8000 mkII. Unfortunately this will also be a very limited run of only 8 for next year because they're also individually hand machined like the big ones, pricing for the AS-800 will be in the Kronos Pro range with motor controller.david
Thank you David for those details. It sounds like a fun and worthwhile project. I wish I had the budget to consider either as an alternative to what I already own. I look forward to seeing the photographs of the finished tables and reports from the owners.
Well not taking notes at the time--but remembering the traits--having heard both tables before in other situ's
my personal consensus is the MS has more depth to the playback--it just pushed more buttons with Moi!:b
The AF sounded more "metallic " especially on strings--with these the MS lauded supreme.
I listen to a lot of classical.
Seriously both TT's are truly excellent and to split the hair--so to speak--
is indeed fine line, so listen for yourself as someone as experienced as your good self I know will do.
Good luck,
BruceD
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