MSB Select II arrival

KeithR · Aug 14, 2017

bonzo75 said:
keith, we do not disagree on the sound of the MSB. We have different compare references. I did like the MSB through AR. And you have the AR. Not as much as the analog or as the Lampi. This is one area where having different compare references with better systems help

Flow, liquidity, and decay were *exceptional* on the MSB. Your comments were opposite. I know because I had the exact same analog recordings playing by the side on my Brinkmann.

What MSB sounds on Tannoy doesn't matter to me one iota - as I don't like the speakers at all. And thanks for humble slamming my rig...lol. You do realize I've heard Lampi in multiple systems. I don't like tube dacs, I'll just say that.

bonzo75 · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
Flow, liquidity, and decay were *exceptional* on the MSB. Your comments were opposite. I know because I had the exact same analog recordings playing by the side on my Brinkmann.

What MSB sounds on Tannoy doesn't matter to me one iota - as I don't like the speakers at all. And thanks for humble slamming my rig...lol. You do realize I've heard Lampi in multiple systems. I don't like tube dacs, I'll just say that.

I didn't mean to slam your rig - you did take a punt on the where a well developed house system matters. If you can give, you should take

I did not slam the flow and liquidity of the MSB - I liked better that of the analog and the Lampi

your entire report could have been made with any mention of me

Mike Lavigne · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
I had a full day demo of the MSB Reference DAC in my system yesterday courtesy of Alex (asiufy) - to say I was impressed is an understatement.

What first struck me was how relaxed the presentation was - just like good analog, but not like old school "swingin'" turntables. I also heard decay that was astounding coming from a digital source (all 16/44 fyi). There was no sheen added however and transparency was clearly in a new direction - for instance, vocals had a sense of inflection and undulation that was higher than any reference I've heard. On my Jarvis Cocker album, I quipped that I could feel the movements in his throat which made it feel like he was literally in front of us. The MSB also had remarkable drive - surely in part due to its 50lb (!) power supply. On Bonzo's favorite Reiner, it really made me feel like I was in Disney Hall even compared with my Brinkmann-based analog system...but I wasn't picking out parts of the recording. It was a very holistic experience.

Most of the time, "better digital" means more detail - what I have stewed upon over the past 24 hours is that with the MSB that wasn't my focus and it went beyond those boundaries. I also understand now why the digital vs. analog comparisons are somewhat tiring to Mike and not terribly important. And yes, we did a half dozen vinyl/MSB swaps on both analog and digital recordings. I don't think there was necessarily a winner or loser on *all* tracks. I just think MSB has taken a leap into new territory where it doesn't sound quite digital or analog at all. It really is its own reference.

We also did swaps using my Music First TVC preamp vs. the MSB internal version - this was a slight area of disagreement between Alex and I, but I preferred the transformer-based passive's more realistic tone and timbre as well as drive and "umph." I just found the internal version thin in a few spots. Alex thought the internal version was a hair more transparent. I wonder if at the Select level, which has no filter, if the results would change.

So where does it leave me? I feel that if I didn't have a vinyl collection, saving up for a Ref Dac would be my first priority and its such an easy, well-integrated solution. Having a small record collection and decent analog rig complicates the thought process but I will work through it over the next few weeks.

I also find it interesting that Bonzo and I disagree quite a bit on the sound of the MSB - i think this is one area that having a well-developed, house system helps.

the MSB Reference Dac is a winner. great write-up Keith, thank you.

MSB's view of the nuance of the music breaks through the whole (analog-digital-solid state-tubed) format-topology discussions. it's 'like' music....in my experience.

KeithR · Aug 14, 2017

bonzo75 said:
I didn't mean to slam your rig - you did take a punt on the where a well developed house system matters. If you can give, you should take
I did not slam the flow and liquidity of the MSB - I liked better that of the analog and the Lampi
your entire report could have been made with any mention of me

Thank you. I have no problem taking constructive criticism in my rig - in fact, I encourage it (ask Ron or Alex). I mentioned your write-up because I was surprised - we tend more often than not to agree on things.

bonzo75 · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
Thank you. I have no problem taking constructive criticism in my rig - in fact, I encourage it (ask Ron or Alex). I mentioned your write-up because I was surprised - we tend more often than not to agree on things.

Sure. I am quite positive if I went to Mike's I would prefer the MSB more, and if I came to yours with a a lampi and set up the tubes you would prefer it more. And when you heard the Lampi, was it the Big 7 or the GG, and in your system or a compare, or at a show?

CKKeung · Aug 14, 2017

MSB Reference DAC and 204 monoblocks at HK High-End AV Show 2017.jpg

The above photo was taken at the Hong Kong High-end AV Show 2017 held on 11-13 Aug 2017.
The Reference DAC and 204 monoblocks were demoed in the MSB HK dealer's room.

To be frank, I really don't like the gold finishings (which is of the taste of Mainland Chinese audiophiles only)!
However, the sound was very musical and enjoyable.

Larry was at the Show and gave some important info for MSB fans :
There probably won't be a "Select Grade" UMT transport.
MSB surely will make a Reference Grade UMT transport! The prototype will be ready in about 2 months' time.
The current RJ45 format of MSB Pro-I2S may be replaced by an optical (ST&T) Pro I2S format.
The new Renderer with MQA capability will be ready soon.

Please contact the MSB N Am dealers or directly MSB headquarter for confirming the above news.
Many thanks!

KeithR · Aug 14, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Sure. I am quite positive if I went to Mike's I would prefer the Lampi more, and if I came to yours with a Lampi and set up the tubes you would prefer it more.

The way my system is constructed is the antithesis of using a tube dac (or phono). The entirely wrong direction actually. I have heard tubes in digital since the old Audio Aero Capitole was the cdp of the month 15 years ago. I have owned numerous DHT products, just not a source. None of them have been for me.

Like MikeL commented, the new MSB stuff is really on its own and negates the analog/digital and tube/ss comparisons. Everything else sounds like "good digital"

bonzo75 · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
The way my system is constructed is the antithesis of using a tube dac (or phono). The entirely wrong direction actually. I have heard tubes in digital since the old Audio Aero Capitole was the cdp of the month 15 years ago. I have owned numerous DHT products, just not a source. None of them have been for me.

Like MikeL commented, the new MSB stuff is really on its own and negates the analog/digital and tube/ss comparisons. Everything else sounds like "good digital"

Ok, so to be clear, you have not heard the Lampi then, at least not the Big 7 or the GG in your system, or in a compare. i am not necessarily a tube phono fan. Can work, cannot work

Al M. · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
Like MikeL commented, the new MSB stuff is really on its own and negates the analog/digital and tube/ss comparisons. Everything else sounds like "good digital"

Have you heard everything else to be able to make such a definitive statement?

KeithR · Aug 14, 2017

Al M. said:
Have you heard everything else to be able to make such a definitive statement?

I dunno Al - why don't you tell me?

I guess I'm tired of making comments wherein I described what I heard to draw my conclusions and now being told I'm an idiot and haven't heard anything.

bonzo75 · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
I dunno Al - why don't you tell me?

I guess I'm tired of making comments wherein I described what I heard to draw my conclusions and now being told I'm an idiot and haven't heard anything.

Keith c'mon, you started with "- i think this is one area that having a well-developed, house system helps." it was uncalled for, let's now move on. Storm in a tea cup.

asiufy · Aug 14, 2017

My only comment would be that that Tannoy is woefully out of place...

Al M. · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
I dunno Al - why don't you tell me?

I guess I'm tired of making comments wherein I described what I heard to draw my conclusions and now being told I'm an idiot and haven't heard anything.

I have nothing against enthusiasm, often being enthusiastic myself. I also did not call you an idiot. However, when you say 'everything else', this means 'everything else'. A little caution with statements goes a long way no matter how much enthusiasm is behind them.

Personally, I haven't heard the new MSB gear and thus cannot comment on how it stacks up against other digital.

bonzo75 · Aug 14, 2017

I am not a tannoy fan either. But then I am not fan of many speakers

Mike Lavigne · Aug 14, 2017

CKKeung said:
The above photo was taken at the Hong Kong High-end AV Show 2017 held on 11-13 Aug 2017.
The Reference DAC and 204 monoblocks were demoed in the MSB HK dealer's room.

To be frank, I really don't like the gold finishings (which is of the taste of Mainland Chinese audiophiles only)!
However, the sound was very musical and enjoyable.

Larry was at the Show and gave some important info for MSB fans :
There probably won't be a "Select Grade" UMT transport.
MSB surely will make a Reference Grade UMT transport! The prototype will be ready in about 2 months' time.
The current RJ45 format of MSB Pro-I2S may be replaced by an optical (ST&T) Pro I2S format.
The new Renderer with MQA capability will be ready soon.

Please contact the MSB N Am dealers or directly MSB headquarter for confirming the above news.
Many thanks!

+1 on the thumbs down on the gold ancillary gear, although the lighter gold color ( not the true gold) on the Select itself is elegant.

Thanks for the update on developments. That's the first I heard that the Select transport is not going to happen.

KeithR · Aug 14, 2017

Al M. said:
I have nothing against enthusiasm, often being enthusiastic myself. I also did not call you an idiot. However, when you say 'everything else', this means 'everything else'. A little caution with statements goes a long way no matter how much enthusiasm is behind them.

Al, since this is Mike's thread i don't think my digital history is pertinent. I was trying to convey how the new MSB digital sounds in my system (not at a show like i've heard it before) and that it changes reference points - which Mike has alluded to many times on this thread. Notice, I didn't even mention my own dac in the post. That was intentional.

spiritofmusic · Aug 14, 2017

Keith, you've got nothing to apologise for.
You've heard a bunch of digital and this is one of the few, if only one, pieces that fully satisfies you and negates the "is digital the measure of analog or not".
It's a purely subjective thing.
For my part, I've heard a fair amount of digital, plenty of analog, and I've found the ideal digital that has attributes I only hear in the best analog, and no negatives, and an analog front end that competes w some belt drives in excess of 5x the price, but also approximates those things in digital that a lot of other pricey analog can't compete with, so they intersect somewhere on a distant horizon.
You love yr Msb, Ked loves his GG, I love my Eera.
Hopefully we can all agree we all love Mum and Apple Pie.

PeterA · Aug 14, 2017

KeithR said:
Like MikeL commented, the new MSB stuff is really on its own and negates the analog/digital and tube/ss comparisons. Everything else sounds like "good digital"

Keith, I'm sorry, but I kind of agree with Al M. on this one. To write that "the new MSB stuff is really on its own", as a reader, I am curious to know to what digital gear you have directly compared it. Some details would help to put your declaration into some context. If one were to declare that a specific vinyl rig negates the whole analog/digital debate, I would surely want to know a few of the turntable/arm/cartridge combinations the person has directly compared it to.

I have not heard the new MSB stuff. I did hear an older MSB DAC in a very familiar system. I did not particularly like it and the owner after some time decided to sell it. That is the extent of my experience with MSB. I have heard the Rossini, Vivaldi, Lampi and Shiit DACs recently. For some context for me, Al, and possibly others, have you directly compared the new MSB Dac to either the Vivaldi or Shiit in the same system? Just curious.

Mike Lavigne · Aug 14, 2017

PeterA said:
Keith, I'm sorry, but I kind of agree with Al M. on this one. To write that "the new MSB stuff is really on its own", as a reader, I am curious to know to what digital gear you have directly compared it. Some details would help to put your declaration into some context. If one were to declare that a specific vinyl rig negates the whole analog/digital debate, I would surely want to know a few of the turntable/arm/cartridge combinations the person has directly compared it to.

I have not heard the new MSB stuff. I did hear an older MSB DAC in a very familiar system. I did not particularly like it and the owner after some time decided to sell it. That is the extent of my experience with MSB. I have heard the Rossini, Vivaldi, Lampi and Shiit DACs recently. For some context for me, Al, and possibly others, have you directly compared the new MSB Dac to either the Vivaldi or Shiit in the same system? Just curious.

i cannot comment on all digital, but have to agree with Keith that what the MSB Select II (and to a slightly less degree with the Reference) does for musical nuance is unique in digital i have heard.....in my system. and show systems I've heard it in.

Keith may be guilty of a little hyperbole, but i agree with his feelings.

Al M. · Aug 14, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
i cannot comment on all digital, but have to agree with Keith that what the MSB Select II (and to a slightly less degree with the Reference) does for musical nuance is unique in digital i have heard.....in my system. and show systems I've heard it in.

Keith may be guilty of a little hyperbole, but i agree with his feelings.

Understood. All this could have been avoided if the statement would have been <<Everything else that I have heard thus far sounds like "good digital">>. This would have been uncontroversial and still would have gotten across the perceived extraordinary status of the new MSB gear.

MSB Select II arrival

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

VIP/Donor

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

Industry Expert/VIP Donor

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

VIP/Donor

Similar threads