What SET amplifiers have Realistic Midrange Magic AND have the Great BASS? Rock your Horns!

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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Which SET amps deliver on their usual virtues but also have great bass to rock out on AC/DC and Led Zeppelin?

Or does one actually need an SS amp in addition to a SET amp for their horns?
 

Sablon Audio

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May 22, 2015
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Caesar, I would recommend that you consider the combination of speakers / amp together rather than just the amp in isolation. Low frequency grip is not the natural preserve of SET amps, and therefore you will need speakers with a kind impedance curve as well as high efficiency. This approach could be ultimately cheaper than looking to high power SET amps which require huge traffos / chassis and may not have the traditional midrange magic of 300b / 2A3 / 45 designs.
 

abeidrov

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Dec 17, 2015
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Please, have a look at the Border Patrol amplifiers. They are famous for their excellent power supply units, which are apparently responsible for the unusual for a SET amplifier bass quality. Depending on your speakers, you can go for 8 watts per channel in single 300B output mode or for 18 watts per channel in parallel 300B mode. Pair them with good 300B valves like Takatsuki, and you will be surprised with what a 300B SET can do.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Ime, 845-based amps.

Shakti mentioned that if you get the KR Audio 211, you get the benefits of 845 mids with 211 dynamics
 

flez007

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Aug 31, 2010
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a hard call indeed, I have had Viva Solista and liked it a lot - my speakers have a low sensitivity rating so I moved on, but it was one of the best SET I have had by far.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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I defer to my Europe-based, NAT Audio-loving, friends but I think one or more of the NAT Audio SET amplifiers would fit this bill.

(I continue to wonder about NAT Audio Magma New SEs on the Pendragon ribbon panels.)
 

etunes

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Jan 8, 2012
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Which SET amps deliver on their usual virtues but also have great bass to rock out on AC/DC and Led Zeppelin?

Or does one actually need an SS amp in addition to a SET amp for their horns?
My Air Tight ATM-211's driving Tannoy GRF90's play rock to insane levels without breaking a sweat.
 

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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I defer to my Europe-based, NAT Audio-loving, friends but I think one or more of the NAT Audio SET amplifiers would fit this bill.

I would like to add the also european based KR Audio with their Kronzilla Amps.
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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I guess the answer here is "It depends". If you have really sensitive speakers then rocking and midrange magic can come from quite modest amplifiers and usually for purity, simpler is better.

For rocking hard with SET, I have found that big bottles usually work best; 845, 211, GM70, 813, 805, T100, T1610 and 6C33C (i know it is not as BIG as the others but it sure sounds big) etc. These USUALLY do not have quite the midrange magic of 300B, 2A3, 45 etc. If your speakers are in the low 90db/watt range though you will usually find these smaller triodes gasping a bit and despite the delicacy of the sound they will not rock like the house like the big bottles. Parallel 300B can do a very good job but still doesn't seem to have the impact of a single big bottle.

Here is a list of ones that I have heard that sound very nice in the mids/highs and still rock pretty hard (again with speakers > 90db/watt and easy(ish) loads)

New Audio Frontiers 845SE stereo and monos
New Audio Frontiers Superme 300B (sweet but maybe a bit too soft to Rock hard with anything less than 95db/watt)
NAT SE1, SE2SE and SE3
NAT Transmitter
NAT Single (with 805 output tube)
KR Audio VA340
KR Audio VA350
KR Audio Kronzilla SXI
KR Audio Kronzilla DM monos
Wall Audio Opus M50 monos (great midrange and strong bass)
Ayon Crossfire III (was a bit dry with stock tubes but much more liquid now with NOS tubes Ayon rectifier and swapping 6N30 for 6N6)
Ayon Vulcan Evo
Vaic 52B monos and Vaic/Ayon 52B reference monos
Wavac HE805 (midrange to die for! Spooky good)
Lamm ML2 (that 6C33C does something special I tell you).
Aries Cerat Diana Integrated (dynamic monster with OTL like transparency)
Aries Cerat Concero 65 monos (as above but more of both)



For more delicacy I would think something like the Audio Note P4 balanced monos or Conquest Silver signature might fit the bill. I heard the orginal P4s drive the hell out of Magnepans.
Kondo Gaku Oh (also parallel 300B) or Kegon (parallel 300B) are sublime but maybe not "rockin'" enough.
Audio Aero Prestige monos (haven't heard first hand but a trusted source says they are unreal good sounding...hallucinogenic)
Kondo Ongaku and Gaku On (parallel 211)
Audio Note UK 211 based monos (I have heard Jinro but not in a non-Audio Note system so hard to decouple what I heard).
JJ-322. Nice delicacy and insight but doesn't rock very hard.
Audion Black Shadow: This amp seems promising but I haven't heard it.
 
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Lee Henley

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Feb 21, 2014
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I play quite a bit of rock music especially Led Zeppelin, I use Audionote Empress Silver mono blocks which are around 6W SET, these play rock without any issues into Horn speakers
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I play quite a bit of rock music especially Led Zeppelin, I use Audionote Empress Silver mono blocks which are around 6W SET, these play rock without any issues into Horn speakers

Lee is THE rocker, he has 100s of led zep bootlegs, autographed, ticket stubs and backstage passes autographed, and that day we were listening to the original vinyl and comparing it to some of the reissues. The originals had such better bass. Am sure there must be some reissues such are good, but the difference here was pretty high.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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He needs to hear LZ3 on Japanese vinyl
None of the U.K pressings I've heard come close
Otoh, Presence on Jap vinyl is more
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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Depending on Speaker, I am using Air Tight 211 monos or NAT SE2 or SE3 .
All three can do a great bass punch on Rockmusic, if the speaker let them do!
Juergen
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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He needs to hear LZ3 on Japanese vinyl
None of the U.K pressings I've heard come close
Otoh, Presence on Jap vinyl is more

What about the original
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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I prob haven't heard bona fide originals
They're pretty hard to come by, and pricey, Jap vinyl often a v worthwhile alternative
"Immigrant Song" and "Tangerine" transformed on my copy from my 70s UK vinyl
 

Kcin

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Mar 27, 2016
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You may want to investigate Wyetech.

I have the Topaz with 211's and on the right speakers it does everything you ask for. It is primarily power supplies with film caps and multiple chokes. Very rigid supply and clocks in at about 125lbs
TopazHiRes1.jpg
 

Lee Henley

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Feb 21, 2014
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Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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I guess the answer here is "It depends". If you have really sensitive speakers then rocking and midrange magic can come from quite modest amplifiers and usually for purity, simpler is better.

For rocking hard with SET, I have found that big bottles usually work best; 845, 211, GM70, 813, 805, T100, T1610 and 6C33C (i know it is not as BIG as the others but it sure sounds big) etc. These USUALLY do not have quite the midrange magic of 300B, 2A3, 45 etc. If your speakers are in the low 90db/watt range though you will usually find these smaller triodes gasping a bit and despite the delicacy of the sound they will not rock like the house like the big bottles. Parallel 300B can do a very good job but still doesn't seem to have the impact of a single big bottle.

Here is a list of ones that I have heard that sound very nice in the mids/highs and still rock pretty hard (again with speakers > 90db/watt and easy(ish) loads)

New Audio Frontiers 845SE stereo and monos
New Audio Frontiers Superme 300B (sweet but maybe a bit too soft to Rock hard with anything less than 95db/watt)
NAT SE1, SE2SE and SE3
NAT Transmitter
NAT Single (with 805 output tube)
KR Audio VA340
KR Audio VA350
KR Audio Kronzilla SXI
KR Audio Kronzilla DM monos
Wall Audio Opus M50 monos (great midrange and strong bass)
Ayon Crossfire III (was a bit dry with stock tubes but much more liquid now with NOS tubes Ayon rectifier and swapping 6N30 for 6N6)
Ayon Vulcan Evo
Vaic 52B monos and Vaic/Ayon 52B reference monos
Wavac HE805 (midrange to die for! Spooky good)
Lamm ML2 (that 6C33C does something special I tell you).
Aries Cerat Diana Integrated (dynamic monster with OTL like transparency)
Aries Cerat Concero 65 monos (as above but more of both)



For more delicacy I would think something like the Audio Note P4 balanced monos or Conquest Silver signature might fit the bill. I heard the orginal P4s drive the hell out of Magnepans.
Kondo Gaku Oh (also parallel 300B) or Kegon (parallel 300B) are sublime but maybe not "rockin'" enough.
Audio Aero Prestige monos (haven't heard first hand but a trusted source says they are unreal good sounding...hallucinogenic)
Kondo Ongaku and Gaku On (parallel 211)
Audio Note UK 211 based monos (I have heard Jinro but not in a non-Audio Note system so hard to decouple what I heard).
JJ-322. Nice delicacy and insight but doesn't rock very hard.
Audion Black Shadow: This amp seems promising but I haven't heard it.

You can add to this list Kondo Kagura amps: very, very strong 50 - 211 single ended - watts.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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You can add to this list Kondo Kagura amps: very, very strong 50 - 211 single ended - watts.

Which 211 tubes do you use? Shakti who uses Airtight 211 was particularly fond of the KR 211 tubes saying they gave him the best of 211 and 845 mix of power and mids
 

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