Bunch of audio “experts” select their BEST products. Fun! What do you think?

Lee · Nov 6, 2017

Every digital audio device operates with an internal circuit generating the clock signals, or heartbeat, required to operate that device. This master generator is an extremely stable oscillator that supplies external clocks to digital devices (such as a transport, D/A convertor, Super Audio CD player) equipped with clock input terminals. The master clock generator supplies clock signals with a higher degree of purity and stability than clocks generated internally by digital devices and vastly improves the sound quality. By operating connected devices off the same highly stable master clock, timing errors called jitter are virtually eliminated greatly improving imaging and dimensionality while darkening the background.

Lee · Nov 6, 2017

This is the dCS clock I have heard.

https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/rossini-clock/

microstrip · Nov 6, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
The closer the master clock is to the D/A, the better. Any DAC designer will tell you this. Having a master clock in another device, whether it's a server or an external converter with additional interfaces (S/PDIF or AES/EBU) will NEVER be as good as having the master clock in the interface just before the D/A in the same device, the DAC. (...)

Probably a DAC designer, but not a digital system designer. Some people consider that the quality of the digital signal entering the DAC is as or even more important than the ultimate characteristics of the clock close to the DAC.

In this approach having a high quality external clock that spreads the clock signals in all the system, creating a "better" digital stream can be the proper choice.

One think I have learned since long is that there are no absolutes or dogmatic rules in this hobby, particularly in digital. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

Lee · Nov 6, 2017

microstrip said:
One think I have learned since long is that there are no absolutes or dogmatic rules in this hobby, particularly in digital. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

Well said.

Empirical Audio · Nov 7, 2017

microstrip said:
Probably a DAC designer, but not a digital system designer. Some people consider that the quality of the digital signal entering the DAC is as or even more important than the ultimate characteristics of the clock close to the DAC.

In this approach having a high quality external clock that spreads the clock signals in all the system, creating a "better" digital stream can be the proper choice.

One think I have learned since long is that there are no absolutes or dogmatic rules in this hobby, particularly in digital. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

Most older DAC's did not have any master clock in them. My DAC has a master clock, but only to clock the Ethernet interface, not the DAC. If you feed S/PDIF to my DAC, it recovers the clock, but does not use any local master clock. Many of the newer designs add an upsampler, which obviously must have a clock. The downside is that the upsampler clock may not high quality and the upsampler adds its own coloration. Hardware upsamplers usually do, even the best ones.

The point is that the master clock (the only one that really matters), ideally should be as close to the final D/A logic as possible. By "close" I mean eliminating stages, cabling and other interfaces, such as S/PDIF. I cannot imagine ANY DAC designer taking issue with this statement.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

microstrip · Nov 7, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
Most older DAC's did not have any master clock in them. My DAC has a master clock, but only to clock the Ethernet interface, not the DAC. If you feed S/PDIF to my DAC, it recovers the clock, but does not use any local master clock. Many of the newer designs add an upsampler, which obviously must have a clock. The downside is that the upsampler clock may not high quality and the upsampler adds its own coloration. Hardware upsamplers usually do, even the best ones.

The point is that the master clock (the only one that really matters), ideally should be as close to the final D/A logic as possible. By "close" I mean eliminating stages, cabling and other interfaces, such as S/PDIF. I cannot imagine ANY DAC designer taking issue with this statement.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Surely no one can disagree with "ideal" statements carefully armored

- it would be a waste of time and bandwidth.
But all solutions have compromises when they are implemented - IMHO it is the interesting part to debate.

Anyway such claims about ANY DAC designer in an environment where we do not have top DAC designers to comment looks like bravado ...

Lee · Nov 7, 2017

microstrip said:
Surely no one can disagree with "ideal" statements carefully armored - it would be a waste of time and bandwidth.
But all solutions have compromises when they are implemented - IMHO it is the interesting part to debate.

Anyway such claims about ANY DAC designer in an environment where we do not have top DAC designers to comment looks like bravado ...

opus112 · Nov 7, 2017

microstrip said:
Probably a DAC designer, but not a digital system designer.

As both a DAC designer and a digital system designer, this isn't correct. What Steve is saying is correct, the closer the clock to the DAC, the better.

Empirical Audio · Nov 8, 2017

opus112 said:
As both a DAC designer and a digital system designer, this isn't correct. What Steve is saying is correct, the closer the clock to the DAC, the better.

caesar · Jul 29, 2019

It's summer time. And there have not been any mention of audiophile awards for a month or two. So here are the awards from the same group from 2018:

CD-Player/Transport: ESOTERIC K-05X

DAC: Chord Electronics Ltd. DAVE

Digital Control Unit: AURALiC ARIES G2

Computer Audio Server: Roon Nucleus

Mobile Player under 1,000 EUR: Astell&Kern KANN

Mobile Player over 1,000 EUR: Astell&Kern A&ultima SP1000

Turntable under 1,500 EUR: MoFi UltraDeck

Turntable over 1,500 EUR: Technics SL-1000R

Tonearm: Swedish Analog Technologies - SAT CF-09

Pickup Cartridge: Hana SL

Phonostage: CH Precision P1

Integrated Amplifier: Hegel H590

Preamplifier: McIntosh C2600

Stereo Power Amplifier: VTL S-400 Series II

Mono Power Amplifier: Audio Research Reference 160M

Desktop Headphone Amp and/or DAC Combo: Chord Electronics Ltd. Hugo TT 2

Portable Headphone Amp and/or DAC Combo: AudioQuest DragonFly Red

Bookshelf Speakers: Dynaudio Special Forty

Floor standing Speakers under 15,000 EUR: Bowers & Wilkins 702 S2

Floor standing Speakers over 15,000 EUR: Wilson Audio Alexia Series-2

Loudspeakers over 100,000 EUR: Wilson Audio WAMM Master Chronosonic

Subwoofer: SVS SB16-Ultra

Headphones: Sennheiser HD 660 S

Over-Ear/On-Ear Headphone over 500 EURHiFiMAN SUSVARA

In-Ear Headphone under 500 EUR: Campfire Audio Comet

In-Ear Headphone over 500 EUR: Audeze LCDi4

Wireless Headphone: Sennheiser MOMENTUM wireless

AC Cable: IsoTek EVO3 Ascension

Signal cable: Nordost Odin 2

Racks & Supports: Subbase Audio Shambala TSS

AC Distribution and Conditioners: AudioQuest Niagara 7000

System and Software Enhancers: Roon

Set-up Aids and Tools: Acoustical Systems SMARTractor

Innovation: Kii Three loudspeaker

Value for money: Bowers & Wilkins 702 S2

Lifetime achievement: Charley Hansen

Again, although the "audio journalists" selecting these are from various publications, this list consists of mostly bigger, more popular brands. We have little true diversity, no surprise.

Barry2013 · Jul 29, 2019

Thanks for taking the trouble to post the list of awards Ceasar.
My first reaction was no great surprises despite one or two products that I am not familar with. but it then struck me that it was really quite a diverse list of different manufactures which is encouraging for our hobby.

Elliot G. · Jul 30, 2019

Lee said:
Honestly, I have to differ here as one who goes to a lot of shows. Some observations from 14 years at RMAF and others:

1. Great gear sounds great at shows by and large. Many of the better firms either know how to so setup or hire guys like Jim Smith and Stirling Trayle to get it right.

2. Hotel power sucks like most power (I know this since I do location recordings) but a good line conditioner solves this and good people like PS Audio lend out that gear.

3. Hotel rooms have bad acoustics but you know what, that's not an excuse since setup guys are at work and many mfrs uses the same room year-in year-out and figure out what needs to be done.

4. The biggest sound problems come from using really bad gear like Scaena speakers (fortunately PS Audio hated them and moved to the much better Focal) and Ayre electronics or have really bad synergy which is sadly a bigger issue. Fundamentals matter like primarily speaker-amp pairings. How's that for honesty.

Hi Lee,
I am going to apologize first because I really don't agree with your statements. If you ask someone like Stirling what he thinks of sound at shows I believe he will have a very different opinion than most gear sounds great at shows. Power does suck at shows and a power conditioner DOES NOT solve all the problems with bad grounds and fluctuating power. Acoustic treatments can help but they do not fix all issues with rooms that have poorly constructed walls and very loud noise coming from everywhere and everyone that walks in. Really great audio systems require EVERYTHING to be good in order to be great. Great Room, great electricity, great gear and IMHO uncompromising set up.
I have seen and heard to many systems to count and the overwhelming problems with the huge majority is they are not set up properly. Speaker positioning is not important is it critical. If it is not perfect and I do mean perfect than everything else you do wont help!!!!
As a small distributor I can say for sure that the press does not treat everyone the same. WOW a shocker.
Rooms like ours don't even get visited by most of the press. I am not saying all and it is getting better since we are developing Brand awareness but it is true. We are going to advertise this year in both major publications and it will be interesting to see what happens from all of our work.
Shows are useful in allowing companies to show their products and give the public a glimpse of what they are capable of. The reviews at shows to me are like reviewing a Porsche in bumper to bumper traffic.
Audio requires as much perspiration and effort after the purchase as it did to figure out what it is you wanted to buy.
Peace,
Elliot

Al M. · Jul 30, 2019

Elliot G. said:
Hi Lee,
I am going to apologize first because I really don't agree with your statements. If you ask someone like Stirling what he thinks of sound at shows I believe he will have a very different opinion than most gear sounds great at shows. Power does suck at shows and a power conditioner DOES NOT solve all the problems with bad grounds and fluctuating power. Acoustic treatments can help but they do not fix all issues with rooms that have poorly constructed walls and very loud noise coming from everywhere and everyone that walks in. Really great audio systems require EVERYTHING to be good in order to be great. Great Room, great electricity, great gear and IMHO uncompromising set up.
I have seen and heard to many systems to count and the overwhelming problems with the huge majority is they are not set up properly. Speaker positioning is not important is it critical. If it is not perfect and I do mean perfect than everything else you do wont help!!!!
As a small distributor I can say for sure that the press does not treat everyone the same. WOW a shocker.
Rooms like ours don't even get visited by most of the press. I am not saying all and it is getting better since we are developing Brand awareness but it is true. We are going to advertise this year in both major publications and it will be interesting to see what happens from all of our work.
Shows are useful in allowing companies to show their products and give the public a glimpse of what they are capable of. The reviews at shows to me are like reviewing a Porsche in bumper to bumper traffic.
Audio requires as much perspiration and effort after the purchase as it did to figure out what it is you wanted to buy.
Peace,
Elliot

Great post, Elliot.

asiufy · Jul 30, 2019

Elliot G. said:
Shows are useful in allowing companies to show their products and give the public a glimpse of what they are capable of. The reviews at shows to me are like reviewing a Porsche in bumper to bumper traffic.
Audio requires as much perspiration and effort after the purchase as it did to figure out what it is you wanted to buy.
Peace,
Elliot

Now imagine trying to review/judge rooms from a show from YouTube videos...

Great post, BTW.

Al M. · Jul 30, 2019

asiufy said:
Now imagine trying to review/judge rooms from a show from YouTube videos...

Hehe, our favorite, isn't it?

Elliot G. · Jul 30, 2019

Al M. said:
Great post, Elliot.

thank you

Elliot G. · Jul 30, 2019

asiufy said:
Now imagine trying to review/judge rooms from a show from YouTube videos...

Great post, BTW.

thank you

caesar · Jul 30, 2019

Barry2013 said:
Thanks for taking the trouble to post the list of awards Ceasar.
My first reaction was no great surprises despite one or two products that I am not familar with. but it then struck me that it was really quite a diverse list of different manufactures which is encouraging for our hobby.

Hi Barry,

Thanks. Yes, I find these awards more interesting - both from an entertainment standpoint and from an intellectual standpoint - than those of individual magazines because of their diversity. Stereophile and John Atkinson-Wilson always predictably select Wilsons, Audio Research, etc., as their best products. TAS predictably selects Magico, but TAS is not participating in these RMAF awards, so no Magico winners. But here we have a much larger mix of guys.

But again it's worth restating that high-end audio follows the economic rules of "superstar markets". (The theory was developed by Sherwin Rosen of University of Chicago.) "Herd effects" or "bandwagon effects" are prevalent in these situations.

The bandwagon effect is where popular brands become even more popular as people gain knowledge of them from their friends, experienced influencers, dealers, online boards, show reports , “audio journalists “, etc.

What this means is that a small number of brands get the lion's share of the sales - and rewards. Popular tastes and brands like Wilson dwarf everyone else. For every 8 wilsons sold, maybe 1 or 2 magicos get sold? And smaller speaker brands are lucky to sell 3-4 pairs in a year.

And that's why even in this more diverse group of individuals, we have other popular brands dominate while smaller brands and less-popular brands get ignored. The "avoided" group includes less-known box speakers brands, high-efficiency, horns, etc.

The other side of this is that brands that don't win suffer the humiliation of being ignored. Even I have empathy for Magico being ignored by a bunch of guys from the Wilson booster club , who think every thing else is drek. ... but again, the reality is that it's just different tastes and preferences, and powerful social networks to reinforce them ...

caesar · Jul 30, 2019

Elliot G. said:
...
As a small distributor I can say for sure that the press does not treat everyone the same. WOW a shocker.
Rooms like ours don't even get visited by most of the press. I am not saying all and it is getting better since we are developing Brand awareness but it is true. We are going to advertise this year in both major publications and it will be interesting to see what happens from all of our work.
Shows are useful in allowing companies to show their products and give the public a glimpse of what they are capable of. The reviews at shows to me are like reviewing a Porsche in bumper to bumper traffic.
Audio requires as much perspiration and effort after the purchase as it did to figure out what it is you wanted to buy.
Peace,
Elliot

Amen. That's why I started this thread and the Wilson Marketing thread.

Best of luck with your business!

Elliot G. · Jul 30, 2019

caesar said:
Amen. That's why I started this thread and the Wilson Marketing thread.

Best of luck with your business!

thank you were doing OK!

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