Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

YashN · Feb 19, 2016

BE718 said:
Thats pedantry in the extreme. You know precisely what I was referring to. So "dealing" is the new term for "joining"?

Let's be pedantic like scientists would be and have you explain to us precisely how the Entreq 'joins equipment grounds together'.

BE718 said:
Actually if you have paid attention to my posting you will find what I have said is that it doesnt do anything over what can be achieved with cheap ordinary cable and a connector block. Also that if it is necessary you need to be looking at a more fundamental level at the (signal ) grounding regime in your system as it is obviously deficient.

You are aware that people who have balanced/clean power or balanced ICs, or great chassis-grounding solutions (Tripoint Troy) have still reported additional better SQ with the Entreq?

BE718 said:
You should be asking "why do I need this"? Your equipment clearly isnt effectively performing a pretty fundamental function.

No, the more interesting question is why people who already have good grounding still find additional benefits and how does it work and whether that fits an existing Engineering and Scientific corpus of knowledge.

BE718 said:
As an aside, most wont know if they have a noise issue anyway. Without measurement most wont know if the Entrail has made this better or worse or no different. Yet Im sure they will convince themselves its a massive improvement, especially after spending thousand of $ on it....

The name of the Brand is Entreq not Entrail.

It would be interesting to know why if your system is supposedly very good at grounding, you couldn't hear any difference in the initial set of files provided by Fiddle Faddle in your system. It's obvious this is a far bigger issue for you here.

YashN · Feb 19, 2016

amirm said:
The issue is that unlike me, you have not had a way to have that assumption validated. And that such validation may show no improvement or as it was in my case a detriment. We have processes and systems in place to do that both subjectively and objectively.

More information and validation can't possibly be bad.

And yes, I will evaluate the box when I get it and test any hypothesis people have for why it might make an improvement.

1. Normal system that a lambda user would set up at home (no clean power, no chassis-grounding, no star-grounding, unbalanced, no signal 'grounding')
2. Chassis-grounding
3. Star-grounding
4. Unbalanced v Balanced ICs
5. Balanced Power/Clean power
6. Experimenting with having more or less ambient High-Frequency waves (RFs?)

Lots of permutations to be done.

And there would be a need to know the original sound very closely, so that any 'euphonic' effect on attack transients, soundstage, timbral accuracy can be detected properly.

I'd rather have an accurate soundstage than an artificially wide soundstage for instance.

BE718 · Feb 19, 2016

YashN said:
Let's be pedantic like scientists would be and have you explain to us precisely how the Entreq 'joins equipment grounds together'.

You are aware that people who have balanced/clean power or balanced ICs, or great chassis-grounding solutions (Tripoint Troy) have still reported additional better SQ with the Entreq?

No, the more interesting question is why people who already have good grounding still find additional benefits and how does it work and whether that fits an existing Engineering and Scientific corpus of knowledge.

The name of the Brand is Entreq not Entrail.

It would be interesting to know why if your system is supposedly very good at grounding, you couldn't hear any difference in the initial set of files provided by Fiddle Faddle in your system. It's obvious this is a far bigger issue for you here.

OK then, please explain in detail how the entrail joins the grounds.

As I have said before, I hold no trust in others subjective opinions. People are too easily biased, often greatly exaggerate and sometimes plain imagine they can perceive differences. Also unless they have objective measures of the system before and after they have no idea if the entrail has improved, worsened or done nothing to the noise levels. So to attribute their perceived improvement to the unknown effect is how shall we say, less than scientific. It is quite feasible that noise had increased and they just like that sound more.

No the question really is why is their system design deficient. Why is it suffering a noise problem (allegedly) ? Why does it (allegedly) need an entrail to solve the problem? Get to the cause of the problem instead.

Oh dear, shame I have to repeat a question already answered. I said that I thought the differences I perceived were not significant. see the difference between what I actually said and your spin?

Rodney Gold · Feb 19, 2016

you have 2 choices
1.. someone has discovered what he thinks makes the sound better..believes in it passionately , comes up with an explanation he thinks is technically the way its working and markets and sells to audiophiles who are happy with their purchase ...win win

2...someone sees gullible audiophools with deep pockets .. invents some junk and backs it up with techno bauble and pseudo science.. sucks an astronomical price..thinks the product is rubbish anyway....a scum sucking bottom feeding charlatan

You got to ask yourself which camp the tweak provider comes from and act according

P-O · Feb 19, 2016

Amirm
Then we are two. I have never heard about you either, if it wasn´t for WBF.
I have to break my word to not continue in the debate, because I must ask you:
Why not try with a so simple thing as ask me polite if we can send you some boxes? I can´t and would not try stop any test, so I have no problem send you what box you want for free,( except the Poseidon and big Olympus Tellus. They will be to expensive ship )
I also can provide you some cables and different metal plates to try. After test you return it back on our account. Let say you can have them for 6 weeks as we did years ago.
But of course, if you break up the boxes you have to pay for them.
What I say before is that I would not share any of our own knowledge and measurements. That is our own property. But I never had and never will try stopping any from test the way they want to.
Even if you don’t like me, Entreq or our products there are no need for being so dammed arrogant as you are against Entreq and they who use our products. And the thread´s has never been so long and big if you not have allowed some of the posters act as senile parrots time after time. I´m not sure I agree that this have been good PR either for Entreq or WBF
Please consider joining our friendly and helpful community
Can you tell me what you mean with friendly tone?
And don’t you think measurements have been done so many times before from other companies?
Some have do it for copy, some for decide if they should distribute our products and some for other reasons.
You are right. I can´t handle the measure instruments myself, no either can I anything when the computers flounder. But I know people who can and I know where to buy the expertise. So I use to solve such problems.
If you want us to send you some groundboxes, please tell me witch and also where we should ship and we can do it next week.
Best
PO

Barry2013 · Feb 19, 2016

Can't say fairer that Amir!

amirm · Feb 19, 2016

P-O said:
Amirm
Then we are two. I have never heard about you either, if it wasn´t for WBF.
I have to break my word to not continue in the debate, because I must ask you:
Why not try with a so simple thing as ask me polite if we can send you some boxes? I can´t and would not try stop any test, so I have no problem send you what box you want for free,( except the Poseidon and big Olympus Tellus. They will be to expensive ship )

First, let me thank you for coming back and using such a friendly and kind tone. It is the best way to shame me and others to do the same

.

As to why not ask you is because I prefer to test things without any obligation to arrive at any conclusion. Even if you don't put any obligations on me, I still feel bad writing about a negative outcome given the work and expense to send me products.

That said, the price of your products are out of the budget I have for this type of testing. I will reach out to you in PM and discuss how we can do this.

I also can provide you some cables and different metal plates to try. After test you return it back on our account. Let say you can have them for 6 weeks as we did years ago.

That is the type of time so it would work out.

But of course, if you break up the boxes you have to pay for them.

Ah, this is a problem as I need to know what is inside them to figure out how to test their properties. So please allow me to think about whether this option will work or not.

amirm · Feb 19, 2016

P-O said:
What I say before is that I would not share any of our own knowledge and measurements. That is our own property. But I never had and never will try stopping any from test the way they want to.
Even if you don’t like me, Entreq or our products there are no need for being so dammed arrogant as you are against Entreq and they who use our products.

I have no prejudice against Entreq. I have not called your products names like snake oil and such that occurs in other forums. Nor have any of the critiques of your product. This is a forum of mixed audiophile audience. So the discussions around what a box does from two different points of view in audio is natural and core part of our forum. We remain far, far more respectful than any other mixed audience forum. That friendliness and respect however does not extend to censorship of the knowledge of membership in analyzing a product.

And the thread´s has never been so long and big if you not have allowed some of the posters act as senile parrots time after time. I´m not sure I agree that this have been good PR either for Entreq or WBF
Please consider joining our friendly and helpful community
Can you tell me what you mean with friendly tone?

You live in a world PO that brings scrutiny to you and your product. You can't get upset over it. You signed up for this the moment you built a seemingly simple box and attached sonic benefits to it that raise eyebrows of experts in that domain you say the product exists in. What we have done here that has not been done in other forums is that we have stopped people from running you and the supporters out of town.

The thread here is a spin off of the same discussion on PF forum. Here are the comments made there:

"the workmanship is **** poor, looks like it's been knocked up by a five year old,"

"what the actual f...... is it supposed to do something? And the box is made poorly made."

"I thought at first this was a parody of some kind, it appears not to be."

"As I understand it the sales pitch is that it's a sort of ground which stray currents will flow to. Only you are warned not to disconnect the real ground. Presumably because this isn't actually a ground. It's just a box full of some ground. "

"ha ha ha - is it april fools day"

"where are they going to flow to? its utter utter bollocks"

"Other than cat litter has anybody identified what the I assume are metal filings are?"

This was all on the first page of that forum! So while our nose is not 100% clean with respect to our mission statement you quote, we have accomplished in keeping the discussion cordial enough to make progress on technical merits of your product.

And don’t you think measurements have been done so many times before from other companies?

Love to see them if they are. Most often I see these measurements from skeptics that perform simple assessments and call the device useless. My hope is to investigate further and give any avenue of value a chance to the extent possible so that the results can't be dismissed as easily.

You are right. I can´t handle the measure instruments myself, no either can I anything when the computers flounder. But I know people who can and I know where to buy the expertise. So I use to solve such problems.

I understand. I hope you also understand that we can't do anything with your ability to get paid measurements done. We can only analyze the measurements if they are provided to us.

BTW, I am very disappointed in the negative tone of the second part of your reply here. What you did in the first part, you undid in the second

.

spazmatron · Feb 19, 2016

Amir maybe you should try communicating in swedish, then P-O can critique your subtle inferences

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 19, 2016

I know I said I would not be contributing any further comments in this thread (or any others Entreq related), but having read some comments in the last few days (in this thread and yet another one), it is becoming increasingly hard for me to separate comments made in jest versus "serious" ones.

With that out of the way, there are some things people should be aware of when I made my tests.

1. They were always made between 2.00 am and 3.00 am in the morning.

2. Anything within (or outside) of the house requiring the use of electricity was turned off during all tests (i.e. Entreq with and Entreq without), except for my refrigerator (it is summer here) and the doorbell and workstation obviously. Everything else was completely switched off at the wall sockets.

2. The sound pressure levels in the room itself were only as contributed by the workstation, which in the purposely steady state I was running it in (in terms of purposely maintaining constant fan speeds during all tests), it was around 33 dBA. Afterall, when you are measuring at such low noise levels relative to what the equipment is capable of, you need to keep all test parameters perfectly consistent. I had a fan monitoring program running and made certain fans were not speeding up or slowing down across the tests as that may have influenced the noise floor, even despite SoTM filters being fitted to all of them.

3. There was never any audible music playing during any phase of any test - not even through headphones, let alone speakers. It is just the quiet sound of the fans in the workstation within the room and nothing more.

4. I only listen through headphones and I experience the same types of benefits with Entreq equipment that people do who use speaker systems.

I am only mentioning this because there has been some speculation that the Entreq equipment may rely to some extent on music vibrations occurring within the room and I honestly don't know anymore who is being serious here and who is just continuing on with the "let's bury Entreq" crusade. So I am playing it safe. If I did not see the joke then I am sorry I don't share the same highly developed, sophisticated sense of humour that you guys do.

spazmatron · Feb 19, 2016

Fiddle Faddle said:
I know I said I would not be contributing any further comments in this thread (or any others Entreq related), but having read some comments in the last few days (in this thread and yet another one), it is becoming increasingly hard for me to separate comments made in jest versus "serious" ones.

With that out of the way, there are two things people should be aware of when I made my tests.

1. They were always made between 2.00 am and 3.00 am in the morning.

2. The sound pressure levels in the room itself were only as contributed by the workstation, which in the purposely steady state I was running it in (in terms of purposely maintaining constant fan speeds during all tests), it was around 33 dBA. Afterall, when you are measuring at such low noise levels relative to what the equipment is capable of, you need to keep all test parameters perfectly consistent. I had a fan monitoring program running and made certain fans were not speeding up or slowing down across the tests as that may have influenced the noise floor, even despite SoTM filters being fitted to all of them.

3. There was never any audible music playing during any phase of any test - not even through headphones, let alone speakers. It is just the quiet sound of the fans in the workstation within the room and nothing more.

4. I only listen through headphones and I experience the same types of benefits with Entreq equipment that people do who use speaker systems.

I am only mentioning this because there has been some speculation that the Entreq equipment may rely to some extent on music vibrations occurring within the room and I honestly don't know anymore who is being serious here and who is just continuing on with the "let's bury Entreq" crusade. So I am playing it safe. If I did not see the joke then I am sorry I don't share the same highly developed, sophisticated sense of humour that you guys do.

that's because your too well grounded... or not grounded enough, bugger i have confused myself.... DOH

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 19, 2016

spazmatron said:
that's because your too well grounded... or not grounded enough, bugger i have confused myself.... DOH

That's a joke!!!! See, I got that one!!!!!

You just have to keep them simple for me.

amirm · Feb 19, 2016

spazmatron said:
that's because your too well grounded... or not grounded enough, bugger i have confused myself.... DOH

Quit horsing around. Doing so causes the ground to harden and not work so well for audio....

spazmatron · Feb 19, 2016

seems to have soften the ground in fact, now its good too soft, better for the horse who endures and better for grounding and being grounded.

it a relief to find something your not proficient at, diplomatic relations and foreign affairs

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 19, 2016

God I love spazmatron's avatars. They are the most awesome on the internet.

rockitman · Feb 19, 2016

P-O said:
Amirm
Then we are two. I have never heard about you either, if it wasn´t for WBF.
I have to break my word to not continue in the debate, because I must ask you:
Why not try with a so simple thing as ask me polite if we can send you some boxes? I can´t and would not try stop any test, so I have no problem send you what box you want for free,( except the Poseidon and big Olympus Tellus. They will be to expensive ship )
I also can provide you some cables and different metal plates to try. After test you return it back on our account. Let say you can have them for 6 weeks as we did years ago.
But of course, if you break up the boxes you have to pay for them.
What I say before is that I would not share any of our own knowledge and measurements. That is our own property. But I never had and never will try stopping any from test the way they want to.
Even if you don’t like me, Entreq or our products there are no need for being so dammed arrogant as you are against Entreq and they who use our products. And the thread´s has never been so long and big if you not have allowed some of the posters act as senile parrots time after time. I´m not sure I agree that this have been good PR either for Entreq or WBF
Please consider joining our friendly and helpful community
Can you tell me what you mean with friendly tone?
And don’t you think measurements have been done so many times before from other companies?
Some have do it for copy, some for decide if they should distribute our products and some for other reasons.
You are right. I can´t handle the measure instruments myself, no either can I anything when the computers flounder. But I know people who can and I know where to buy the expertise. So I use to solve such problems.
If you want us to send you some groundboxes, please tell me witch and also where we should ship and we can do it next week.
Best
PO

Thank you PO. It is a shame that some members on this forum shoot from the hip, including the forum administrator. At one time, this kind of thing was not tolerated here. No longer. This subject/product has been denigrated by those who have no experience with the grounding boxes, yet continue to foment unrest, skepticism (which can be okay) and final judgment. It is no wonder so many manufacturers choose to not post in forums like this. I certainly feel embarrassed for the forum.

Purite Audio · Feb 19, 2016

I can see how it must be a tiny bit embarrassing spending a good deal of money on boxes of 'piezo electric' material!
Keith.

amirm · Feb 19, 2016

rockitman said:
Thank you PO. It is a shame that some members on this forum shoot from the hip, including the forum administrator. At one time, this kind of thing was not tolerated here. No longer. This subject/product has been denigrated by those who have no experience with the grounding boxes, yet continue to foment unrest, skepticism (which can be okay) and final judgment. It is no wonder so many manufacturers choose to not post in forums like this. I certainly feel embarrassed for the forum.

What you saying? That we leave such claims unchallenged:

spazmatron said:
seems to have soften the ground in fact, now its good too soft, better for the horse who endures and better for grounding and being grounded.

I don't think so. Not under the watch of King of Audio. No horse is safe....

rockitman · Feb 19, 2016

amirm said:
What you saying? That we leave such claims unchallenged:

I don't think so. Not under the watch of King of Audio. No horse is safe....

I'm saying your not much different than the rest of the peanut gallery taking their dirty laundry out for a wash. King of audio ? What is your statement system you do all your listening on ? I don't think I recall you ever sharing....Could help give some context to the conversation. I am a firm believer that the Entreq effect may be harder to discern on lower rez 2-channel and home theatre type systems. Then again, you haven't even gone that far...you have yet to try it...lol.

amirm · Feb 19, 2016

rockitman said:
I am a firm believer that the Entreq effect may be harder to discern on lower rez 2-channel and home theatre type systems.

What is the basis of that belief? Experiments you have run?

Then again, you haven't even gone that far...you have yet to try it...lol.

OK tell us which low-res 2 channel system and home theater you have tried it on.

Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

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