Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage vs Extrema

flez007 · Nov 4, 2010

I am lucky enough to have both of them now at my dedicated room, I wonder what should I expect as differences from this two models and how to base my analysis on deciding which to keep.

Any hint will be greatly appreciated.

DaveyF · Nov 4, 2010

Well Fernando, I think that you are very lucky to have both in your system. The GH's , as we both agree, are more magical in the mids and are slightly more revealing. The Extrema's are slightly ( VERY slightly IMHO) more dynamic and are able to plumb the depths better.
When i had the opportunity of hearing both in my system and in my room, I preferred the GH's

( The Extrema's subsequently returned to the dealer) In a bigger room and without the assistance of a sub, I might prefer the Extrema's, the GH's and the right sub would push me back to the GH's.
In my room the GH's also imaged slightly better than the Extrema's. Maybe you should keep both

flez007 · Nov 5, 2010

Thanks Dave - I had a quite long listening session last night with some friends listening to both speakers (quite a task since they are both heavy to move around), and our conclusions are in- line to what you are saying ( even keeping both)

The GH are more integrated and a tad better in the mids, the Extremas are more dynamic and resolving (they did impress me a lot since I was expecting a more Hi-Fi sound.. Not al all!).

At the end it might depend on the musicall material, since the Extremas can cope with a larger selection of genres, and might have more potential based on the 27 watts I have now with the Viva Solista (interestingly the Viva handled the Extremas pretty well at decent levels). maybe it is time for me to go back to SS class A or a VTL like yours

.

More later, I will have another session tonight with both of them.

microstrip · Nov 5, 2010

Hi have owned both speakers and my answer will start with a question: how large is your room?

Considering the speakers - how do you compare an eagle with a peacock?

The Extrema need some room gain to develop the bass, good positioning and a matching amplifier to start flying. Believe it or not they are also extremely dependent on the cables.

I had the Extrema's in a flat and soon realized that I had to sell them because they are the type of speaker that sounds great at levels you should not listen to when you have neighbors. Their huge soundstage did not collapse with loudness. Fortissimo could be their nickname. If you find the recording listen to the VTL LP or CD "Louis" (VTL 007) at life like levels with them - you will be astonished with the number of musicians that are hiding inside and outside your room.

The Guarneri have a nice timbre and a spacious sound. Tone of string instruments in excellent, as with the other Homage speakers. But they did not feed my soul as the Extrema's did.

The Proprius CD Cantate Domino was very popular between audiophiles when I owned the Extrema - the layering capabilities of the Extrema in the chorus was unique for a cone speaker. Mahler and Shostakovitch also loved them!

DaveyF · Nov 5, 2010

microstrip, compare an eagle with a peacock

I think perhaps more like a dove to a swan....

But seriously, my impressions of the GH's vs. the Extrema's in my room
favored the GH's... and frankly NOT by a small margin.
I much preferred the magic midrange of the GH's, which is very very important aspect
IMHO. Most music lives in the midrange.
The Extrema's weren't able to give the pinpoint imaging specificity in my room that the GH's throw my way.
In the bottom end, the Extrema's are better, probably dropping down to +- 30hz in my room.
The GH's begin to drop off about +- 50hz. However, in my small dedicated room, the GH's sounded far more of a sophisticated and complete design all round. More palpable presentation of instruments and better top to bottom coherence.
BTW, i am now experimenting with acoustic room controls...bass trapping to be more precise.
I will be reporting my findings on this after some more listening, BUT as of now, I think that this is
exactly what the GH's need to bring them up to their very considerable best

flez007 · Nov 6, 2010

microstrip said:
Hi have owned both speakers and my answer will start with a question: how large is your room?

Considering the speakers - how do you compare an eagle with a peacock?

The Extrema need some room gain to develop the bass, good positioning and a matching amplifier to start flying. Believe it or not they are also extremely dependent on the cables.

I had the Extrema's in a flat and soon realized that I had to sell them because they are the type of speaker that sounds great at levels you should not listen to when you have neighbors. Their huge soundstage did not collapse with loudness. Fortissimo could be their nickname. If you find the recording listen to the VTL LP or CD "Louis" (VTL 007) at life like levels with them - you will be astonished with the number of musicians that are hiding inside and outside your room.

The Guarneri have a nice timbre and a spacious sound. Tone of string instruments in excellent, as with the other Homage speakers. But they did not feed my soul as the Extrema's did.

The Proprius CD Cantate Domino was very popular between audiophiles when I owned the Extrema - the layering capabilities of the Extrema in the chorus was unique for a cone speaker. Mahler and Shostakovitch also loved them!

I would rate my dedicated room like "not-so small sized"

it measures aprox 6 mts long by 4 mts wide and a triangular shaped ceiling with 3.5 mts on the largest side by 2.5 mts in both ends of the north and south walls.

I had continue listening to them and enjoying their resolution capabilities as well as their wider freq. response curve, only thing that bothers me is that with more complicated material (Tool, Mingus, Kashmire....) the sound is a little congested. I am blaming the 27 watts of the Solista, but not sure...

microstrip · Nov 6, 2010

DaveyF said:
However, in my small dedicated room

This was my key point - an eagle can not fly in a small room and the Extrema's should not be placed in small rooms.

DaveyF · Nov 6, 2010

Microstrip, i agree with you. The Extrema's do seem to need a fairly large room.
Fernando, I heard the Extrema's with my Rowland 8... no problem driving them there

I suspect that the Solista is working too hard for the Extrema's.

flez007 · Nov 7, 2010

After a couple of days trying them both, and since I need to build up a decision today, I am leaning towards the Extremas performing the following changes in my system:

1.- add two additional subs (10 or 12 inch) as per FrantzM recommendation at other post.
2.- cut the extremas to 60Hz via a battery charged capacitor in series to help the Viva handle the Extremas.
3.- alterativeliy bi amp the Extremas later with anither amp for the low/mid driver.

Thoughts?

DaveyF · Nov 7, 2010

Thoughts?

Well Fernando, I would lean towards bi-amping or using a ss amp with some punch with the Extrema's ( I don't think your Solista is going to get the job done with the Extrema's

). I think you might find that if you cap the Extrema's that you may loose some of their coherence....I suspect that the cap will degrade the signal enough that you will hear this.
Adding two additional subs, IMHO seems to discount the reason to acquire the Extrema's in the first place. The GH's are IMHO a more coherent and of a piece speaker,which I think have it all over the Extrema's except in the bottom end. So, I would be more inclined to stay with the GH's and maybe add two subs to them vs. the Extrema's. OTOH, if you wanted more bass punch without adding subs, then I would agree and go with the Extrema's. Big Bass can be very seductive, BUT again IMHO, this wears off pretty quickly and you are left with the other failings of the speaker. BTW, as I said before, I am now experimenting with bass trapping, which I am beginning to feel you cannot overlook. I would look into more bass trapping in your room before I would replace the GH's or add the Extrema's.

microstrip · Nov 7, 2010

I do not remember the details any more, but I once read that Tim Paravicini designed two small power amplifiers (one tubed and the other transistor) and got an wonderful and powerful sound of the Extremas in by-amp mode. It is not easy to find why they require so much power (efficiency is 88 dBW, a typical value for this type of speaker).

Perhaps if you use your tubed unit for treble and a similar sounding amplifier you will get a great combination.

IMHO, forget about 2. If you want to add subs just use the damping control (LF contour) to reduce the bass to the minimum level .

flez007 · Nov 7, 2010

Dave - in my room the Extremas are adding more than just additional bass, they open up more, have a tad better resolution and imaging is also better than the already good sounding GH, the later produce a little congested sonic ambience within the space between both speakers compared to the Extremas which throw a more open soundscape, there is just more potential out there from the Extremas.

Microstrip - many friends down here favour biamping, I will try that route as well and/or move to a more powerfull amp if I decide to keep the Extremas.

DaveyF · Nov 7, 2010

Fernando, That's very strange that the GH's are a little congested in the space between the speakers. Are you listening to the GH's with the Extrema's still in place in the room; because that would explain your findings.
If not, and if you still like the Extrema's better in your room...then your room must be more synergetic with the Extrema's. That wasn't the case in my room; BUT my room is a lot smaller than yours. Which is why the
GH's stayed in the system and the Extrema's went packing.

Orb · Nov 8, 2010

This is a standmount I have been curious about for awhile.
Is the talk about the current Memento model or earlier one , and if it is the current model is there any audible difference between the VR and GR?
No idea what those initials relate to, but I notice the GR costs more.

Thanks
Orb

flez007 · Nov 8, 2010

Orb - this relates to the Guarneri Homage speakers, early model ( and batter IMO) than the new Guarneri Memento which is a fine speaker as well.

microstrip · Nov 8, 2010

DaveyF said:
That's very strange that the GH's are a little congested in the space between the speakers.

May be the amplifier has not power enough for the speakers in that room. You should remember that the Guarneri Homage are 2dB less efficient than the Extremas. When I had the GH, I used them with a Jadis DA7 (100W tube) and a Jeff Rowland Concentra . Recent reviews of the similar sensitivity Guarneri Memento refer the speaker needs "lots of power".

Orb · Nov 9, 2010

Thanks Flez for the headsup.
Its good to know there are experiences between the two models, what in your opinion is the preference difference that means you like the early model more?
This is useful for those curious about these speakers.

Thanks
Orb

flez007 · Nov 9, 2010

Orb - The conclusions are based on my experience with both th GH and the GM in my system, saying that... I prefered the midrange reproduction on the GH as well as the driver integration, the GM played lower and more dynamically, but at the expense of sounding more harsh. There is a very interesting thread at AGON leaded by DaveyF with far more rationale behind such as driver and build quality which might worth the time for any interested party to dig into it.

Orb · Nov 10, 2010

Thanks Flez and I will take a look at the thread on Agon.

Thanks
Orb

flez007 · Nov 15, 2010

Raul and Francisco came to help me setup my speakers, i have no doubts now that it was a good move from my GH thatvalready were a fine speaker. I also returned to 100 ohms setting for my Chord phono and the response is more linear now - thanks Raul and Francisco!

Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage vs Extrema

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