no doubt.
I love what my stock TS-150 (preamp) and TS-140 (turntable) do....too.
and.........I'm super excited to be able to compare my stock TS-150 with the hot-rod Taiko Tana/LPS/Stechi version side by side.
Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.
- Thread starter rockitman
- Start date
no doubt.
I love what my stock TS-150 (preamp) and TS-140 (turntable) do....too.
and.........I'm super excited to be able to compare my stock TS-150 with the hot-rod Taiko Tana/LPS/Stechi version side by side.
I am very curious about that comparison too -- before I order at least one TS-140!
(I just saw that Taiko is in The Netherlands (although it is North and West of Holland).)
(I just saw that Taiko is in The Netherlands (although it is North and West of Holland).)
To make the comparison fair, pleas give the stock TS-140/150 an external linear powersupply.
The resulting sonic improvement is surprising.
http://www.herzan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/External-Power-Supply-Installation-User-Guide.pdf
I agree with you that this comparison with different LPS's is important.
and.........Taiko has already done that comparison of different LPS units, so i will accept their word for the difference. I know how much effort they have gone through to optimize the LPS.....and that it turned out to be a very big issue in ultimate performance. I assume the interface works the same for either LPS. I have no need personally to do any comparison, but would, if someone wants me to do it.....and supplies the other LPS.
in any case I want to hear the delta from stock to full blown Taiko Tana/LPS/Setchi. and likely there is an in between step with the stock LPS. the question will be just where is that in between step. it would lack some of the other Taiko upgrades too. it's not just an LPS.
Mike, fantastic news.
I’m aiming for my 3rd and 4th isolation platforms early next year to cover tt, cdp, pre and balanced transformer.
Reliably expecting amazing things.
I can imagine you are too.
Every extra %age point of tangible impvt is so worthwhile at this point, but really needs extreme attention to detail and passionate engineering.
I’m sure you’ll get this from the Tana.
I’m aiming for my 3rd and 4th isolation platforms early next year to cover tt, cdp, pre and balanced transformer.
Reliably expecting amazing things.
I can imagine you are too.
Every extra %age point of tangible impvt is so worthwhile at this point, but really needs extreme attention to detail and passionate engineering.
I’m sure you’ll get this from the Tana.
It looks that the upgrade kit includes an extra regulator board that will also work as a "protection" board in case something goes wrong with the external power supply or we inadvertently switch polarities - if we do not use it a mistake or fault in the power supply can completely destroy the table electronics!
Here you can see all of the power supplies we have evaluated
The lowest one is the SMPS that is available from Table Stable / Herzan
The next is a TeraDak competitor
Then there is a very nicely made LPS from Singapore
Then there is the Taiko, dual choke supply using Schotky rectifiers, Mundorf CAPs and bypasses, and a Belleson regulator in a Panzerholz bathtub enclosure
Apologize for the rotated photo !
There were also two plywood prototypes which we built, way to embarrassing to show, but were left in the dust by the dual choke supply
The lowest one is the SMPS that is available from Table Stable / Herzan
The next is a TeraDak competitor
Then there is a very nicely made LPS from Singapore
Then there is the Taiko, dual choke supply using Schotky rectifiers, Mundorf CAPs and bypasses, and a Belleson regulator in a Panzerholz bathtub enclosure
Apologize for the rotated photo !
There were also two plywood prototypes which we built, way to embarrassing to show, but were left in the dust by the dual choke supply
This is interesting. I tried Kuzma Zerovibe (which is basicly a Table Stable TS-140 with outboard PS) under the preamp and turntable awhile ago and have noticed a reduction of timbral and tonal diversity in sound reproduction. Instruments simply lost a good portion of their naturalness and richness with the isolation unit. At the time of test I didn’t think about the possibility to put a piece of wood or a shelf made of wood between the Zerovibe and turntable that now seems like a good idea. I’m interested to hear from you what exactly do you mean with “more musical”? What happened when you used a thicker piece of Panzerholz? Have you also tried other top plates or just Panzerholz?
Although I do not know what was the "very nicely made LPS from Singapore" I would feel tempted to say you compared a Rolls Royce with compact and family cars and decided to pick the Rolls!
Belleson regulators are highly considered by the DIY community - if I had the time I would surely fit them in my Studer A80!
it seems to me the point is that the higher quality LPS the better the performance of the Table Stable unit. who knew you could hear this difference? I certainly view this subject quite differently that I did before, even though possibly for some it was already an obvious conclusion.
and I get the Roller in my room tomorrow.
Indeed...so a HDPLEX 200 or 100 ...a PliXir ...and your forthcoming element of technical jewelry (that's a complement...just in case not clear).
Always thought that making the SGM's power supply available separately would be a good idea....this strikes as equaling (excelling?) that.
Will the Taiko LPS output "backplane" be configurable to order? am already fitting one up for servicing an ATX power supply header
(and yes I do get ahead of myself)
I really haven't been paying too much attention to this linear power supply thing. Can someone please explain how the TS-140 isolates better with a linear power supply ? So how low does it isolate down to ? 3Hz vs the stock 5Hz ? How can the difference be heard and especially between different LPS's. I remain skeptical.
i'm not skeptical, only the degree of improvement I need to hear with my own ears.
there are two areas of advantage to an LPS.
first; the noise from the SMPS into your power grid is an issue as well as even corrupting your sensitive phono stage high gain circuits with EMI/RF. 3 years ago I had the Thoress Phono in my system and I had to turn off the TS-140 to use the Thoress; I tried moving the Thoress farther away or shielding the Thoress, and grounding the TS-140.......but I could not solve the problem so sold the Thoress. at that time I did talk to Herzan about an LPS but decided I did not want to go there then.
second, just better power for the sensors means better performance. more linear, more solid. just like power supply improvements in any piece of gear.
we know not all power supplies are created equal.
Mike, a secondary reason I had to swerve me away from going active thruout (other than cost and what I perceived as lower performance up against my chosen final passive solution) were the potential effects of the electronics in the platform on my highly sensitive Nat tubed pre and monos.
My Nat Utopia uses a SS psu, and this has to be at least 2-3’ from the tubed pre chassis otherwise feedback ensues.
Similarly my Nat 211 tubes monos are not friendly to psus near them either.
In my personal case I was v wary of putting in effect psus literally an inch or two from my NATs.
Maybe seperating these linear psus in seperate chassis’ away from the platforms would have solved my anxieties.
Too late for me, as you know I’m going down the purely passive overengineered approach.
Remain fascinated however how you get on.
My Nat Utopia uses a SS psu, and this has to be at least 2-3’ from the tubed pre chassis otherwise feedback ensues.
Similarly my Nat 211 tubes monos are not friendly to psus near them either.
In my personal case I was v wary of putting in effect psus literally an inch or two from my NATs.
Maybe seperating these linear psus in seperate chassis’ away from the platforms would have solved my anxieties.
Too late for me, as you know I’m going down the purely passive overengineered approach.
Remain fascinated however how you get on.
We tested, copper silk composite, bamboo composite and then various thickness of Panzerholz. However all of our testing was done using a DAC. We have heard active anti-vibration under turntables in some cases with spectacular results, in others with pluses and minuses.
Our two takeways are
- with a turntable, the vibrational characteristics of the base structure is a large part of the performance. With active anti-vibration for sure the bass response will improve but what will happen to the mids and high is very system dependent
- the quality of the linear power supply is extremely important for both digital and analog gear sitting on an active platform
I get that. I had no interference issues with my phono's. Did you ever get pricing from Herzan for their LPS kit ?
so where does the improvement come from...it isolates down to a lower frequency ? If it doesn't isolate any lower or increase it's range of frequencies it isolates for, it is difficult for me to understand how there could be any audible improvement.
so where does the improvement come from...it isolates down to a lower frequency ? If it doesn't isolate any lower or increase it's range of frequencies it isolates for, it is difficult for me to understand how there could be any audible improvement.
I don't recall; at that time it involved shipping back and forth which was a non-starter for me then. and as far as not hearing interference in your phono from the SMPS, unless you changed it and listened, you would not know the actual effect. it would be summed into the whole TS-140 net change, no way to isolate the SMPS issue (me too on this issue with my dart phono).
ask me in a few days. but the Taiko Tana/LPS/Setchi is more than just a simple LPS change. so maybe others can comment on that 'stage 1' improvement.
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