CH pre-power VS Gryphon pre-power

[Thieliste]

If any of you have listened to the Gryphon Pandora + Antileon Evo stereo can you share your experience vs CH Precision L1+X1+M1 stereo.
Is the CH combo really much better knowing the price difference of €25k ?

 

[gian60]

In the shop of my friend where i bought CH,they had CH M1 and A1 with L1 and also Pandora and Mephisto stereo,Rowland 925,Pass XS and XS 300 and Esoteric Grandioso Pre and mono amp.

I tested for some days,this shop was 20 minutes from my home,with TAD R1 and Rockport Cygnus and cd Esoteric Grandioso,transport and DAC

For ME and for my TASTE,i found CH much more natural,dynamic,fast and transparent than all others.

Shop borrow to me CH to bring home and i tried with my Kondo M7 KSL,G70,GE1 and 2 Souga to biamp my speaker of 98 db,and i found CH much better than my Kondo and i bought

 

[JackD201]

I honestly like them both a lot. For me the Gryphons have a very pleasing tonal palette not dark but subdued on the top end but with a rich body and deep foundation. Loved them with hard bop, R&B, Standards. I feel they favored male vs female vocalist but great with altos. Woodwind and tenor champs. Merlot? The CH is fresh and sparkling, very sweet top end, a vivid free flowing midrange and very fast bass when called upon.CH's most unique quality as far as I am concerned is how every sound event is so easy to get. I don't think I've come across any electronics where back ground vocalists are so easy to understand. Great with classical music, progressive rock, electronica, fusion. Everything is just all there but it doesn't feel forced at me. Strings and female vocal champ. Riesling ?

 

[Thieliste]

I honestly like them both a lot. For me the Gryphons have a very pleasing tonal palette not dark but subdued on the top end but with a rich body and deep foundation. Loved them with hard bop, R&B, Standards. I feel they favored male vs female vocalist but great with altos. Woodwind and tenor champs. Merlot? The CH is fresh and sparkling, very sweet top end, a vivid free flowing midrange and very fast bass when called upon.CH's most unique quality as far as I am concerned is how every sound event is so easy to get. I don't think I've come across any electronics where back ground vocalists are so easy to understand. Great with classical music, progressive rock, electronica, fusion. Everything is just all there but it doesn't feel forced at me. Strings and female vocal champ. Riesling ?

JackD201 thanks for your input very informative.

 

[Thieliste]

In the shop of my friend where i bought CH,they had CH M1 and A1 with L1 and also Pandora and Mephisto stereo,Rowland 925,Pass XS and XS 300 and Esoteric Grandioso Pre and mono amp.

I tested for some days,this shop was 20 minutes from my home,with TAD R1 and Rockport Cygnus and cd Esoteric Grandioso,transport and DAC

For ME and for my TASTE,i found CH much more natural,dynamic,fast and transparent than all others.

Shop borrow to me CH to bring home and i tried with my Kondo M7 KSL,G70,GE1 and 2 Souga to biamp my speaker of 98 db,and i found CH much better than my Kondo and i bought

Gianluigi you're such a CH enthusiast that i will have to visit you at some point

 

[ashandger]

I honestly like them both a lot. For me the Gryphons have a very pleasing tonal palette not dark but subdued on the top end but with a rich body and deep foundation. Loved them with hard bop, R&B, Standards. I feel they favored male vs female vocalist but great with altos. Woodwind and tenor champs. Merlot? The CH is fresh and sparkling, very sweet top end, a vivid free flowing midrange and very fast bass when called upon.CH's most unique quality as far as I am concerned is how every sound event is so easy to get. I don't think I've come across any electronics where back ground vocalists are so easy to understand. Great with classical music, progressive rock, electronica, fusion. Everything is just all there but it doesn't feel forced at me. Strings and female vocal champ. Riesling ?

Hello Jack, your description is very helpful indeed. May I ask if you found the CH significantly less rich sounding than the Gryphon amps? Also, does the latest upgrade to M1s have any impact on this? Many thanks

 

[JackD201]

Hello Jack, your description is very helpful indeed. May I ask if you found the CH significantly less rich sounding than the Gryphon amps? Also, does the latest upgrade to M1s have any impact on this? Many thanks

Hi Ash I find them both rich but they differ in the area where they have their identifying richness'es. The CHs are richer in what I call the halo zone which is basically the bands of bloom, reverb and resonance hence the halo name as these frame and envelope the singers and instruments in space. I find Gryphons richer in what I call the foundation zone where here the Gryphons have more bloom and action. The T1 Thierry Heeb (The H in CH) tells me adds to the C1 and the new caps, as reported, does the same for the M1. Personally, while intrigued, I already have what I've targeted in this area by means of gain level matching and the adjustability of my speakers. As such at least when it comes to mid bass qualities, my speakers are more flexible. Those with speakers without the flexibility of amplitude and crossover points would have to make the requisite tradeoffs, slight as these might be at this level.

As I listen casually with digital i.e. background music and more seriously with vinyl, the T1 is not high on my list of priorities but may end up there once my audio fund (now seriously depleted LOL) is out of the ICU. The P1/X1 is for me the phono that suits both my tastes and requirements best (signal to noise ratio) so I expect that to be a constant.

I find that the new generation of Constellation which we have just begun carrying straddles the two house sounds. If I had the money I would be very torn between using 4 M1s or a pair of Hercules II Monos. Given my still very much alive love of fast triode tubes crossed with my need for high amounts of peak power, I am perfectly content as is with the CH suite. Should however CH have a certified tech make his rounds of South East Asia, I would certainly avail of the Red Cap upgrade. I am too attached to the M1s to live without a pair for too long a time, nor am I inclined to spend the great shipping costs and run through the red tape of sending them back to Switzerland.

In my bedroom system where the bulk of evaluation and testing happens as this is most like a standard living room of most clients in size and acoustic properties at almost 50sqm and high ceilings, I like a cozier sound. Here I go with VR-44s or E3s with KR (P135 with DX or VA200), Lamm (LL2.1 and ML1.1, ML2.1, M1.2). Currently I am now experimenting with various integrateds such as the KR VA900, Constellation and on its way the CH I1 to profile compact packages for clients in flats or condos where space and waf are at a premium. Since we work closely with the distributors of Gryphon as we cross deal some product lines I may ask to borrow a Diablo to try with two speakers from VSA headed our way soon.

 

[ashandger]

Hi Ash I find them both rich but they differ in the area where they have their identifying richness'es. The CHs are richer in what I call the halo zone which is basically the bands of bloom, reverb and resonance hence the halo name as these frame and envelope the singers and instruments in space. I find Gryphons richer in what I call the foundation zone where here the Gryphons have more bloom and action. The T1 Thierry Heeb (The H in CH) tells me adds to the C1 and the new caps, as reported, does the same for the M1. Personally, while intrigued, I already have what I've targeted in this area by means of gain level matching and the adjustability of my speakers. As such at least when it comes to mid bass qualities, my speakers are more flexible. Those with speakers without the flexibility of amplitude and crossover points would have to make the requisite tradeoffs, slight as these might be at this level.

As I listen casually with digital i.e. background music and more seriously with vinyl, the T1 is not high on my list of priorities but may end up there once my audio fund (now seriously depleted LOL) is out of the ICU. The P1/X1 is for me the phono that suits both my tastes and requirements best (signal to noise ratio) so I expect that to be a constant.

I find that the new generation of Constellation which we have just begun carrying straddles the two house sounds. If I had the money I would be very torn between using 4 M1s or a pair of Hercules II Monos. Given my still very much alive love of fast triode tubes crossed with my need for high amounts of peak power, I am perfectly content as is with the CH suite. Should however CH have a certified tech make his rounds of South East Asia, I would certainly avail of the Red Cap upgrade. I am too attached to the M1s to live without a pair for too long a time, nor am I inclined to spend the great shipping costs and run through the red tape of sending them back to Switzerland.

In my bedroom system where the bulk of evaluation and testing happens as this is most like a standard living room of most clients in size and acoustic properties at almost 50sqm and high ceilings, I like a cozier sound. Here I go with VR-44s or E3s with KR (P135 with DX or VA200), Lamm (LL2.1 and ML1.1, ML2.1, M1.2). Currently I am now experimenting with various integrateds such as the KR VA900, Constellation and on its way the CH I1 to profile compact packages for clients in flats or condos where space and waf are at a premium. Since we work closely with the distributors of Gryphon as we cross deal some product lines I may ask to borrow a Diablo to try with two speakers from VSA headed our way soon.

Hi Jack, many, many thanks for taking the time to provide such detailed feedback. Really appreciate it. Very interesting to read your comments about the Hercules II as well. If you every get a chance to hear the Dart 468 monos then would be very interesting to hear your impressions on how they compare with CH M1 and Hercules II. Thanks again and happy listening.

 

[Thieliste]

Hi Jack, many, many thanks for taking the time to provide such detailed feedback. Really appreciate it. Very interesting to read your comments about the Hercules II as well. If you every get a chance to hear the Dart 468 monos then would be very interesting to hear your impressions on how they compare with CH M1 and Hercules II. Thanks again and happy listening.

+1

Jack, also if you have experienced with the d'Agostino M400 would be nice to share the differences with CH M1, Gryphon Mephisto or even the Constellation monos.
Thanks.

 

[awsmone]

In the shop of my friend where i bought CH,they had CH M1 and A1 with L1 and also Pandora and Mephisto stereo,Rowland 925,Pass XS and XS 300 and Esoteric Grandioso Pre and mono amp.

I tested for some days,this shop was 20 minutes from my home,with TAD R1 and Rockport Cygnus and cd Esoteric Grandioso,transport and DAC

For ME and for my TASTE,i found CH much more natural,dynamic,fast and transparent than all others.

Shop borrow to me CH to bring home and i tried with my Kondo M7 KSL,G70,GE1 and 2 Souga to biamp my speaker of 98 db,and i found CH much better than my Kondo and i bought

Gian I would be interested on how you found the variable feedback, and what settings you use with your high efficiency speakers with the CH precision

 

[gian60]

I use 0 feedback because sound is better and more natural
Sometimes I biamp on passive way but the channel for bass i always leave 0 feedback because bass of my speaker is already very fast and deep and don’t need control like for exemple Wilson speaker that are more full on bass
I usually listen at 1 to 4 peak watt and sound is already enough loud due to high efficiency of my speaker,also in my big room of 80 sqm
Sometimes with,for exemple,Dead Can Dance,kraftwerk,Donald Fagen,Stevie Ray Vaughan,Stravinsky I saw on display on M1 also 800 peak watt and one times with Sheffield Drum Record 1203 watt
My speaker can sound also very loud without any problem

 

[morricab]

I use 0 feedback because sound is better and more natural
Sometimes I biamp on passive way but the channel for bass i always leave 0 feedback because bass of my speaker is already very fast and deep and don’t need control like for exemple Wilson speaker that are more full on bass
I usually listen at 1 to 4 peak watt and sound is already enough loud due to high efficiency of my speaker,also in my big room of 80 sqm
Sometimes with,for exemple,Dead Can Dance,kraftwerk,Donald Fagen,Stevie Ray Vaughan,Stravinsky I saw on display on M1 also 800 peak watt and one times with Sheffield Drum Record 1203 watt
My speaker can sound also very loud without any problem

What is the sensitivity of your speakers?

 

[gian60]

97/98
And usually listen at 0.5/2 watt

 

[awsmone]

I use 0 feedback because sound is better and more natural
Sometimes I biamp on passive way but the channel for bass i always leave 0 feedback because bass of my speaker is already very fast and deep and don’t need control like for exemple Wilson speaker that are more full on bass
I usually listen at 1 to 4 peak watt and sound is already enough loud due to high efficiency of my speaker,also in my big room of 80 sqm
Sometimes with,for exemple,Dead Can Dance,kraftwerk,Donald Fagen,Stevie Ray Vaughan,Stravinsky I saw on display on M1 also 800 peak watt and one times with Sheffield Drum Record 1203 watt
My speaker can sound also very loud without any problem

Thx Gian

That’s my experience that low feedback is more natural though maybe not pyrotechnic slam especially for acoustic bass

 

[LL21]

Fascinating thread! Thanks for all the great posts!

 

[shakti]

on my Horns Universum III a feedback of 20% were best with CHP A1 amplifier. The integration of the "standard" 15' Bass to the Horn supported M&H were best.

 

[morricab]

I use 0 feedback because sound is better and more natural
Sometimes I biamp on passive way but the channel for bass i always leave 0 feedback because bass of my speaker is already very fast and deep and don’t need control like for exemple Wilson speaker that are more full on bass
I usually listen at 1 to 4 peak watt and sound is already enough loud due to high efficiency of my speaker,also in my big room of 80 sqm
Sometimes with,for exemple,Dead Can Dance,kraftwerk,Donald Fagen,Stevie Ray Vaughan,Stravinsky I saw on display on M1 also 800 peak watt and one times with Sheffield Drum Record 1203 watt
My speaker can sound also very loud without any problem

This would be over 120db...you listen very loud Gian... How far from the speakers do you sit? This is more important than the room size unless you are far from the speakers and the speakers are far from the walls.

I can only imagine you hitting these levels if 1) the readout is not accurate or 2) the speakers start compressing long before and pumping in more power does far less than 3db for every doubling of the power. or 3) your speakers are not nearly as sensitive as you think. 4) You like live rock concert listening levels...

Have you ever measured the SPL at which you listen or at the speaker and then at the listening position to see how much it drops with distance? In my room, which is admittedly pretty small, I have only about 1db drop from just in front of the speaker to the listening position. Given that my two 98db speakers in stereo will give you over 100db/watt at the speakers, I am probably rarely going above 1-2 watts. I can't even imagine pushing my 25 watt SET to clipping let alone 1000+ watts on peaks.

 

[awsmone]

This would be over 120db...you listen very loud Gian... How far from the speakers do you sit? This is more important than the room size unless you are far from the speakers and the speakers are far from the walls.

I can only imagine you hitting these levels if 1) the readout is not accurate or 2) the speakers start compressing long before and pumping in more power does far less than 3db for every doubling of the power. or 3) your speakers are not nearly as sensitive as you think. 4) You like live rock concert listening levels...

Have you ever measured the SPL at which you listen or at the speaker and then at the listening position to see how much it drops with distance? In my room, which is admittedly pretty small, I have only about 1db drop from just in front of the speaker to the listening position. Given that my two 98db speakers in stereo will give you over 100db/watt at the speakers, I am probably rarely going above 1-2 watts. I can't even imagine pushing my 25 watt SET to clipping let alone 1000+ watts on peaks.

Interesting thought about compression

I once drove Mac 1200 to 1200 with hammer blows in Mahler 6, we didn’t believe it the speakers were Giya 1 we replayed and videod on our phones sure enough 1200 again, was very clean on the giya

 

[microstrip]

(...) 1) the readout is not accurate or (...)

Or probably the readout is very accurate and we are not used to accurate readouts ...

Most readouts just measure voltage peaks and display an "equivalent" power computed considering a resistive load of 8 ohms. However some modern designs sample permanently the voltage and current and display the computed real power of peaks - considering that many current speakers have some points of low impedance, they show values much higher than can be expected. When I hosted the DartZeel NH458 I also found that the readings were sometimes much higher than I could expect from my system calibration - the SoundLab's have very low impedance in the high treble.

 

[morricab]

Interesting thought about compression

I once drove Mac 1200 to 1200 with hammer blows in Mahler 6, we didn’t believe it the speakers were Giya 1 we replayed and videod on our phones sure enough 1200 again, was very clean on the giya

Giya is not 98db/watt though.