Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[Steve Williams]

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[BruceD]

Indeed small changes can reveal BIG differences--I felt when hearing Steve's superb system --the room was slightly over damped but I presumed due to the large footprint of the Wilsons

--and we all know how they can "load" a room!--this was to over(?)tame the reflective aspects of the Speakers in full flight--I agree on the Subs out-good move.

Myself having owned and setup Wilsons from the early 90's including WaTT/Slamms/etc-the positioning increments for the Wilsons are mandatory and necessary.

Now it seems the changes wrought are a positive even more rewarding for his SOTA system and setup.

Kudos

BruceD

 

[Sharp 1080]

Hi Steve, I am glad to read you found an improvement in your setup and room. I am certain you are very happy now.

 

[microstrip]

According to an old recipe for speaker placement we should take out room treatments for speaker positioning and only replace them after they are set in place. Although I have flutterfree panels, RPG diffractals and diffusors in my room, the fluter free panels are moveable and I have 1/8" wood covers that I can fit in place anytime over the acoustic treatment. In fact Wilson Audio advises us to avoid any treatments in the walls close to the speakers.

 

[Mobiusman]

Steve,

That was an amazing summary of our whirlwind get together, and for me a fond flashback of the main events of the visit. I want to think a bit before responding so I can properly convey the vibe of the visit. It was truly a wonderful experience and a much needed break. My mind is such a rush of options that I am weighing that I now know, that I must return to Steve and Cathy's for phase 2 during the next several weeks, so I can see other speakers and cables that Steve wanted to show me, and visit some more.

russ

 

[Tango]

Such clean room. Feel very comfortable just by looking. Congratulation on even more improvement in sound. Must feel so good to be in the zone, Steve.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

congrats Steve, at taking a big step forward with your wonderful room and system. I can 100% relate to how it takes years to get our minds to evolve (we have to change before our rooms can) to understand our rooms and how to find the musical truth. throwing nice gear in a room is only the beginning. but it takes time, hearing references, and getting key feedback from trusted listeners. and then once you have an idea of where you are going, then the process can begin to carefully try things and listen and figure out what is helping and what is in the way.

and when you get it to a point where it's working right it's such a relief, but also a moment of satisfaction where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. and you know you have that little bit greater understanding and are less afraid of the next step when you are inspired to take it.

I am happy for you. enjoy!!!

 

[Ron Resnick]

This is a very interesting update, Steve!

It is pretty fascinating how you can still make sonic improvements to such a well-settled and highly-evolved system!

(I am going to have to remember to try to not be stubborn in response to listener suggestions!)

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

I will have to bring some vinyl over one day at listen, these moments, no matter the scale of the system are what its all about.
I would have to say you probably tweaked about the only thing I ever had reservations about, the bass.
I love bass, good clean low bass. Not boomy, just solid.
My conclusions have been that the obsession with a flat room makes for flat sound over all. I have heard it in many rooms.
When a kick drum kicks, I want to feel it in my body.
That being said when I am in the presence of systems of that magnitude of equipment and effort, I am there to enjoy the flavor, not criticize.
This has been my struggle, getting the bass I want in the sweet spot for everything else, not an easy objective.
I am glad you found that the system had more to give, its very rewarding.
Due to my room size, I ran a node calculator and sure as stuff the listening spot was in a huge node for four different frequency's. So I went unconventional and went diagonal so I sit in my chair towards one corner and face the opposite corner with the speakers on each side. My soundstage transformed and I got my bass. Diagonal in a small room like mine helps with reflections, for my system it was epic.
So congratulations on your discovery and look forward to sitting in the chair again someday.

 

[treitz3]

Hello Steve and good evening to you sir. First off, great read. Let this be a lesson on everything affects everything. Your system has evolved since you moved in. A tweak here, a tweak there, different gear/stands perhaps but with the same basic system...

Great ears lend a helping hand to one's audio, regardless of where one is one their journey. My experience has taught me this. They may be far and few between and it may be years to squeeze another 1-2% at best. When it comes? Embrace it brother because some folks will never experience what other's have. Enjoy Steve.

BTW, love WB.

Tom

 

[Rodney Gold]

Dos Amigos Reunite In Southern California

On our second night I felt that no trip to southern California would be complete without taking Russ for a visit to my good friend Philip O'Hanlon who is now the USA distributor for Gryphon and recent USA distributor for Vivid. Phillip's Gryphon gear was all out at dealers but the real reason we visited was to hear both the Vivid G1 Series 2 and the brand new Vivid Spirit. That was quite a demo and I must say (no offense to Rodney Gold who owns the Spirit) that for my ears I preferred the G1 V2 to the Spirit. Philip has a huge room (40 x 30 x 23) and it is almost an Infinite Baffle. The subs on the Spirit I thought was ginormous and filled even Phillip's very large room so much so that my impression is that the Spirit was bass heavy and rolled off at the top end when compared to the G1 V2 which IMO had excellent bass but not to the extent of the Spirit it had a better top end which did not seem rolled off as compared to the Spirit

The clincher was listening to a track off Phillip's demo disc 18 with Depeche Mode, Welcome To My World. With the Spirit I thought there was going to be plaster falling from the ceiling whereas when played with the G1 V2 the bass was perfect for my ears

All in all the 3-4 hours we were at Phillip's were again educational for me as I am willing to bet there aren't too many places where you can hear G1 V2 side by side with the Spirit.
Ru
The G1 is a big speaker and even though the Spirits 4"shorter than the G1, the Spirit is a MUCH bigger speaker and one's room needs to be huge for this speaker to sing

No offence taken , I too had both speakers side by side for a month (tho not the series 2 of the G1..my old ones of 2 years)
Bass is indeed "big" , and the plaster actually DID fall off my ceiling

 

[Steve Williams]

I had never heard the G1 Ver2 either Rodney but for my ears the G1V2 was a better speaker as it was more coherent to my ears and the top end was not rolled off as were the Spirits

Plus the bass with the Spirit can be a lethal weapon

 

[DaveyF]

Steve, great to hear that you are still realizing improvements with these minor adjustments. Isn't it great to be able to do this with no cost and with the option of being able to reverse them with ease, if you don't like them.
Sorting your system is usually, at least in my experience, an ongoing thing....simply because every time you get something new in the system, you introduce different variables that were not necessarily there before. When I added my second sub in my system, it mandated that I adjust everything from speaker positioning to x-over settings and on and on....took me a couple of months to get it dialed in ( I learnt that it is much harder to actually dial in two subs than just one!).

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Congratulations Steve.

Any chance I can demo your room while I am in Irvine in June?

 

[Al M.]

So at the end of this big long post a big shoutout and thank you to DDK and Bonzo 75 who made the suggestion years ago but thanks to me and my vanity it never got done until recent meeting of the Amigos. If I had only listened to you guys but you both owe yourself a followup listen now to hear the difference. This isn't subtle

I'll post some photos of the simple parting of the drapes and how for e it immediately obviated the need of supplemental subs in my system. My JL Audio Fathom F113's are coming out of the system and will be for sale. Anyone reading this who wants a perfect pair of Fathom 113 Ver 1send me a PM

Don't feel bad, Steve. We are all just human. It took the comments of three audiophile friends to eventually convince me last year that my treble was lacking and my room also was overdamped. Finally I removed an absorbing panel and did some toe-in of the speakers to get things right. I wouldn't have done it on my own.

And congratulations on your new sound! I can see you are thrilled.

As for subs, I think putting them on isolation platforms that decouple their energy from the floor is an absolute must. I use ASC SubTraps. I haven't tried my JL Audio subs without these platforms yet, but I know how muddy my previous REL sub sounded without its SubTrap. Emphatically not recommended.

But since you don't need the subs anymore, I guess for your situation this is a moot point.

 

[LL21]

... In fact Wilson Audio advises us to avoid any treatments in the walls close to the speakers.

interesting as i have seen so many setups (in particular Conrad Johnson's old setup with the X1s) where they had the corners with cylindrical tube traps. Are you using any wall treatments now?

 

[jfrech]

Hi Steve, I've always have been amazed at the most simple of changes seemingly right before my eyes (and ears . Congrats on the change. I to wonder how you react over time.

Also, I suspect taking the subs out of the room, may help even more. Wondering if the subs, while not on, are reacting still with the sound pressure changes from your Wilsons...

 

[PeterA]

Excellent Steve! ALWAYS listen to others' comments, but take it also in stride; at the very least, experiment. We may be coming back your way next year, for vacation again, my son loved LA.

Great advice, Ack. This is how I have learned so much from our Boston Audio Group. Frequent gatherings to hear both live music and our respective systems has done wonders for my understanding of music reproduction and appreciation.

Congratulations Steve. It's nice to see some activity on this monstrous thread again.

 

[RBFC]

Hi Steve, I've always have been amazed at the most simple of changes seemingly right before my eyes (and ears . Congrats on the change. I to wonder how you react over time.

Also, I suspect taking the subs out of the room, may help even more. Wondering if the subs, while not on, are reacting still with the sound pressure changes from your Wilsons...

Agree with this. Even when turned off, speakers can act as passive radiators when excited by the pressure changes caused by actively playing speakers. Another zero-cost experiment for you!

Lee

 

[Steve Williams]

Agree with this. Even when turned off, speakers can act as passive radiators when excited by the pressure changes caused by actively playing speakers. Another zero-cost experiment for you!

Lee

I totally agree as well. In fact yesterday I asked the same question of many members here. Suffice it to say if they stay they will be turned off.