ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458

[wisnon]

NHB458 heaven!

 

[wisnon]

More!

 

[microstrip]

Similar trial my friend did like Mike.
Ha has Wilson Alexandria X2 with pre e phono CH and with Viva New Aurora,a very good SET,zero negative feedback pure class A with around 38 watt
Power is enough and sound is very good of this system,and he has a good but not big room.
Before had also Viva top preamp,but after tried CH L1,sold Viva and bought CH,and CH L1 was a perfect match with Viva.
He tried CH A1 in stereo and bought CH A1 mono,for all of us better than Viva with his speaker,voice seems more natural,bass more controlled and deep,high more open and liquid,seems Viva little roll off VS CH and now he listen that in many recording Viva power was not enough and has now power without limitation

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The type of room I appreciate a lot - lots of wood. IMHO wood is a subjectively friend material for music listening. Did your friend try the CH M1 stereo versus the A1's in mono in his system?

 

[wisnon]

M1

 

[wisnon]

More:

 

[spiritofmusic]

Wisnon, it’s all well and lovely looking at these pics. But what do they have to do with this thread?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Brad, I sit 12’ from my Zus. It really doesn’t matter whether I sit 9’, 12’ or 15’, my conclusion stands.

 

[microstrip]

Great photos. Did you get their permission to show this photo? Their transformers must be short-circuit proof!

Decades ago, when testing one of my DIY class A amplifiers having very large capacitance I managed to fuse the tip of a screwdriver!

 

[wisnon]

Well your last post is even more irrelevant! What does where youy sit have to do with the NHB458 vs the Lamm?
Someone asked about differences to the M1 and I showed the guts of both. if I had Lamm pix, i would have showed those too.

Jeez Loiuse, you are UPTIGHT!

 

[wisnon]

Did you get their permission to show this photo? Their transformers must be short-circuit proof!

Decades ago, when testing one of my DIY class A amplifiers having very large capacitance I managed to fuse the tip of a screwdriver!

Of course, i took them in the presence of the people. As you can see its work in progress, so dont try to draw too many conclusions. Pictures are also a few years old.

 

[gian60]

@microstrip
i sold my A1 mono to my friend because i bought M1 mono
tried M1 and A1 in mono but never in stereo
Wood is very good,also my room sound good without any room treatment,that i will do in future

 

[morricab]

Brad, I sit 12’ from my Zus. It really doesn’t matter whether I sit 9’, 12’ or 15’, my conclusion stands.

Well, it could mean a 2-3db clawed back depending on proximity of your side walls and ceiling...the farther away they are the larger the drop. I had a line source system in a 20 sq. meter room that lost only about 1db from the front of the speaker to the 3.5 meter listening position. Line sources drop linearly with distance (free space...in room is quite different if walls are nearby), point sources drop as the square of distance (again free space).

Sitting closer also involves the room less, again depending a lot on the distance to the walls.

 

[morricab]

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I have seen peaks on the 458 up top 1007w! Often over 900w and plenty-plenty over 700w. this was on female vocals, like Chie Ayado's Tennessee Waltz. This was at midnight in the basement at Chez Herve!

Yes, it was loud...but that is the beauty of a basement when bedrooms are two floors above. LoL

You were surely clipping the amp based on Stereophile measurements! Those speakers must have the sensitivity of mud...

 

[PeterA]

Mike, what you described above is pretty much how I hear the differences between a great tube amp and a great ss amp. They do indeed have different flavors. When you talk about running out of gas with the tube amp, I think you must be talking about VERY high spl’s indeed! One thing that I think most of us would agree with is that a tube amp isn’t going to have the same kind of slam in the bass as a great ss amp. However, since you are utilizing the active bass panel amps for that purpose, I wouldn’t think that should be in effect as to this limitation. This is what puzzles me...the Lamms should have no trouble driving your mid/tweet panels to full capacity.

This is quite interesting. Mike has, debatably, both a SOTA SS amp and a SOTA tube amp. Are you suggesting, and is Mike saying, that they still exhibit characteristics that we describe as either SS or tube sound? I would have thought that at this level, those characteristics would have pretty much merged or disappeared, with both amps sounding more or less similar and real, within today's technology limits and that differences will continue to diminish over time.

I assume that people agree that top level gear is sounding more and more real/convincing. Over time, does anyone think that the best SS and tube amps will truly converge and sound indistinguishable, or will there always be recognizable characteristics which we call SS or tube sound? Are these differences just intrinsic to the technology/typology?

It seems these differences would remain even if Mike had a speaker with say 110 dB efficiency. The Lamm would be less likely to run out of steam, but it would still do the bass, the holographic/palpable images, continuousness and musical flow better while the Dart still would be better with the detail and soundstage portrayal. These are the flavors or different presentations that Mike wants to switch between. Will we someday have an amp that can do it all, given an easy enough speaker load?

 

[ALF]

I can do math. He says the speakers are 97 db and pushes power well in excess of 200 watts. Also, he sits quite close, right? The math shows something on the order of 120+db peaks... I don't know, do you consider this loud?

Ah, thanks Morricab, this helps explain Mike’s comments here; he regularly listens to 120dB peaks...

Mike has no hearing left; of course, this explains why he is a junky for the PEAKS...

Cheers!
ALF

 

[bonzo75]

As you know from my report, he doesn't stock tea or coffee. So I had to ask him to take me down to Starbucks, for coffee. When I first asked him, he said f@k you yourself. I said no, For... Coffee...i had to mouth it out clearly as his hearing was shot. Now I know why. Imagine, 40 years 5 hours a day at 120 Db

 

[gian60]

Then sure ML3 will be better than Viva new Aurora and the price is 3 times more

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Bonzo just made my day!

 

[KeithR]

So I think those who have not heard Mike's system, or been near a listening room so well developed, should all extrapolate from their experiences and conclude that Mike listens loudly at ear splitting levels. Now that all of you agree we can move on.

+1.

I can only chuckle at what I'm reading by the uninformed.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

so I try to get a few hours sleep and you guys trash my thread.

as far as peaks, they last a millisecond. and have little if anything to do with sustained listening levels. Bonzo was in the room for (LZ 45rpm box set, Physical Graffiti) 'In My Time Of Dying', and 'LZ1', 'reel 1' 15ips 1/4". that's as loud as I listen, but it's very occasional, mostly with visitors. the ML3's just can't do justice to stuff like that. but it's comfortable listening to that in my room at warp 9, with all the system work I've done.

with the darts it's rarely over '0' watts continuous, maybe 7-10 watts sustained continuous 'max'. if i'm listening to anything loud, as jazdoc will attest, it's occasional. Saturday night specifically the one tune that we could not portray properly with the ML3's was Pink Floyd's 'Fearless' from the Original Pressing of 'Meddle' which is a 'go to' track jazdoc requested. he likes to hear certain tracks at 'real' level and asks to turn it up.

I don't go to loud concerts, never have, never will....even when i was young. even a loud sports event my fingers (or ear plugs) are in my ears if it gets too loud. and would wager my hearing less screwed up than most here. i know you are just messing with me, but it's a serious subject for me. maybe excepting Audiocrack, i have more invested in my hearing than anyone, and never take it for granted. i'd also guess my ambient noise and system noise floor level is the lowest of anyone, which allows me to listen at lower levels.

and i continually talk about how significant the first watt is to any listening. if that's not great, nothing that follows can be either.