Jeff's Getting a New Stereo System

[morricab]

So for you Ked, it does not seem to matter that Fremer is not seem to be taking a more general approach. Jeff is soliciting opinions for his reference system and his blog and this forum participants are his potential readers. The range of views on this is pretty interesting. It started out being all about Jeff's system and now it is also about how a reviewer should approach his task.

well, given Jeff's status at Soundstage the two seem to me to be inextricably linked...unless, as suggested he wants to "decouple" pleasure listening from analytical evaluations by having two or more systems. Assuming we doesn't want to do that then it has to be considered how the reviewer approaches his work. Michael makes it clear in his video that his basement system is his "work" system for the job of reviewing. Whether he loves the sound or not he has it tweaked, at least in his view, to be able to tease out subtlties in gear under test.

 

[KeithR]

Same here, if reviewing was the main criteria I would stretch my budget to 3 different types of lower priced speakers rather than put them in one commonly recognizable one.

Shakti's approach makes more sense (currently he has a YG which was on Krell, now hypex, and a Zingali on various SETs from NAT, KR, Airtight).

Guys- Jeff doesn't like tubes or analog. He's never going to review a SET amp lol.

 

[bonzo75]

Guys- Jeff doesn't like tubes or analog. He's never going to review a SET amp lol.

Not like is very different from not being the top choice. Also, his experience with that sort of sound is not clear to know why he does not like it

 

[KeithR]

The Crown amps that run the M2's provide all of the massive DSP that has to be applied to the speakers, they also have built in fans that can be quite annoying.

I agree with Keith that the JBL 4367 would be a great choice and something different than just going down market on Magico

The reason I suggested this is the research that Harman does and iirc this speaker uses Harman-developed drivers - Jeff seems a fan of such approaches. The issue will be the cabinet at that price range, which I think is why Jeff upped the budget to 40k.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I, for one, appreciate Jeff Fritz posting about his new system, and the selection process and thinking behind it, from time to time on this thread.

Shouldn't we keep this thread on point about Jeff's system to encourage him to continue to do so?

Morricab, Peter A, maybe start a new thread about the ideal reviewer's system?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Do people pay less attention to Michael Fremer's reviews of source components because he uses cone/dome speakers with SS amps?

I really enjoy Michael Fremer because of who he is and what he says but when they did that recent behind the scenes video of his listening room I did wonder how good it would actually sound or perhaps how much better it might sound in a different room... it did seem like it could be somewhat constrained by the room at any rate (just guessing). That he has Wilson Alexx with the Daartz only says to me yes, full range and clearly reference in terms of sonics. Wilson's are another speaker that regularly appears as a part of reviewer's systems.

What Jeff goes with in the end will be interesting but every speaker has compromises so if he only chooses one pair of speakers then that will narrow the pathway. It's the system and the room and the way it is optimised and balanced that comes from experience and certainly with a less than top SOTA tier speaker that might make that road potentially more of a challenge for him I suppose. Throwing heaps of money at a system has never been a guarantee of success anyway.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Sounds like a balanced strategy but do you find yourself gravitating towards one of the three as being more "right"?

I just couldn't live with any speaker that didn't give a lot of rightness a lot of the time but for sonics the Maggie 20.7s are more often right and might realistically make a great speaker for Jeff in his reviewing but then they are demanding of fairly much everything... also horns like the Animas are a captivating experience so they also abduct you and your time fairly completely and are another purely dedicated listening experience. With Harbeth 40.2s they fill the living space and I can enjoy and keep connected to music while i move around and do work or live and connect and share with other people more.

 

[PeterA]

I, for one, appreciate Jeff Fritz posting about his new system, and the selection process and thinking behind it, from time to time on this thread.

Shouldn't we keep this thread on point about Jeff's system to encourage him to continue to do so?

Morricab, Peter A, maybe start a new thread about the ideal reviewer's system?

Ron, I agree that this thread should stay on the topic of Jeff's system. I posted about three speakers that he listed which sound like great choices to me: the TAD, the Magico S5II, and the Eggleston.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Morricab, Peter A, maybe start a new thread about the ideal reviewer's system?

Why looking for an ideal system for such an imperfect species?

IMHO such generalization would lead to reviews of the type carried by Consumer Report.

 

[caliaripaolo]

. . . in case anyone is interested:

http://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...39-jeffs-getting-a-new-stereo-system-part-one


Thanks for reading.

I completely agree with this:

One has been the ever-steeper upward climb of the prices of high-end gear. In the late 1990s, when I began in this business, a speaker costing $20,000/pair was considered a top dog. Now, for many brands, such models are literally the entry level, or close to it. Then it was $100,000/pair speakers. Now, $400,000/pair seems to be a price that some manufacturers aim for. I’ve talked with many manufacturers about this, and the reason they give for this climb is simple: There is a significant base of customers who won’t even look at equipment that they feel is not expensive enough. One CEO told me that his company took a $40,000/pair speaker to an audio show in Asia, where the complaint was that it didn’t cost enough. “What can you do for double that amount?”

There are no reasons (bill of material, engineering hours...etc) which may justiify the crazy incremental of costs.
Your last system price, Jeff, may be compared to the price for a sail boat like this:



Producers are increasingly exploiting our desire to own something that suits our passion. Except for some virtuous examples (at least for me) as Spectral Audio, others are paving the way for pure speculation.
I must say that my passion right now is a bit in crisis, but away from me to criticize those who are willing to pay crazy amounts of money for this hobby.
Maybe my crisis does not last long, but......
Sorry if I'm a bit out of scope of this thread.

Note: I'm ordering this boat

 

[PeterA]

Paolo, I think many audiophiles share your observations. One difference between such a sailboat and Jeff's former system is not the initial purchase price, but rather the annual cost of ownership and perhaps the number of people who share in the enjoyment of the activity.

 

[caliaripaolo]

Paolo, I think many audiophiles share your observations. One difference between such a sailboat and Jeff's former system is not the initial purchase price, but rather the annual cost of ownership and perhaps the number of people who share in the enjoyment of the activity.

Peter, I was not referring to those who have this kind of passion for hi-end, I am one of those! or, at the moment, I WAS.
I am referring to the producers and the real cost of these objects that can not even remotely be compared to the bill-of material or man hours for research for other items (such as boats).
Although if you compare current prices with those prevailing during the 90', indicating an excessively drugged market and out of control.

 

[microstrip]

I completely agree with this:

One has been the ever-steeper upward climb of the prices of high-end gear. In the late 1990s, when I began in this business, a speaker costing $20,000/pair was considered a top dog. Now, for many brands, such models are literally the entry level, or close to it. Then it was $100,000/pair speakers. Now, $400,000/pair seems to be a price that some manufacturers aim for. I’ve talked with many manufacturers about this, and the reason they give for this climb is simple: There is a significant base of customers who won’t even look at equipment that they feel is not expensive enough. One CEO told me that his company took a $40,000/pair speaker to an audio show in Asia, where the complaint was that it didn’t cost enough. “What can you do for double that amount?”

There are no reasons (bill of material, engineering hours...etc) which may justiify the crazy incremental of costs.
Your last system price, Jeff, may be compared to a sail boat like this:
(...)
Producers are increasingly exploiting our desire to own something that suits our passion. Except for some virtuous examples (at least for me) as Spectral Audio, others are paving the way for pure speculation.
I must say that my passion right now is a bit in crisis, but away from me to criticize those who are willing to pay crazy amounts of money for this hobby.
Maybe my crisis does not last long, but......
Sorry if I'm a bit out of scope of this thread.

Note: I'm ordering this boat

Although I disagree with you on your view concerning hi-end prices - I must congratulate you on the Jeanneau! If I lived close to navigable waters I would also be tempted - but not for the WAMM equivalent ...

Although some manufacturers are speculating, many are pushing SOTA sound reproduction to new levels. IMHO in the past we had products that achieved extraordinary sound reproduction with some recordings or some type of music - we are now achieving this extraordinary level with most recordings, extracting from them unexpected information and musical enjoyment. Surely, sound reproduction is an hobby, and no rational argument can pretend to explain our irrational behavior and expenses in hobbies.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, I was not referring to those who have this kind of passion for hi-end, I am one of those! or, at the moment, I WAS.
I am referring to the producers and the real cost of these objects that can not even remotely be compared to the bill-of material or man hours for research for other items (such as boats).
Although if you compare current prices with those prevailing during the 90', indicating an excessively drugged market and out of control.

Agreed. Another interesting comparison is to watch one of those videos about how very fancy cars, like Porsche or Bentleys are made. The technology and machinery involved is incredible. Of course, they have volume on their side.

 

[caliaripaolo]

Although I disagree with you on your view concerning hi-end prices - I must congratulate you on the Jeanneau! If I lived close to navigable waters I would also be tempted - but not for the WAMM equivalent ...

Although some manufacturers are speculating, many are pushing SOTA sound reproduction to new levels. IMHO in the past we had products that achieved extraordinary sound reproduction with some recordings or some type of music - we are now achieving this extraordinary level with most recordings, extracting from them unexpected information and musical enjoyment. Surely, sound reproduction is an hobby, and no rational argument can pretend to explain our irrational behavior and expenses in hobbies.

Thanks Micro, I live near Garda Lake but this boat will be docked on Mediterranean sea.
Again, I did not referring to the Hi-End lovers, I referred to the increase in drugged prices, for items which have no reason to be so valued unless, indeed, by mere speculation.
But this is the game and I'm fully aware that I'm part of it.
BTW, I'm fully disagree with your preference for WAMM instead of Jeanneau

 

[caliaripaolo]

Agreed. Another interesting comparison is to watch one of those videos about how very fancy cars, like Porsche or Bentleys are made. The technology and machinery involved is incredible. Of course, they have volume on their side.

Yes, indeed, I completely agree.
It is difficult, IMHO, to accept or justify that some brand of loudspeakers are valued as a boat or 3 times a luxury car or a grounding box like my BMW X5, for the mere fact that the components used to build and the research carried out do not justify the selling price, none the volume.

 

[microstrip]

Thanks Micro, I live near Garda Lake but this boat will be docked on Mediterranean sea.
Again, I did not referring to the Hi-End lovers, I referred to the increase in drugged prices, for items which have no reason to be so valued unless, indeed, by mere speculation.
But this is the game and I'm fully aware that I'm part of it.
BTW, I'm fully disagree with your preference for WAMM instead of Jeanneau

Please note that I was not comparing the WAMM with the Jeanneau anyway - my comment was due to my complete inability to sail such a magnificent yacht - but probably I could assemble a system for the WAMM ...

Long ago I considered renting a small yacht with family and friends for a short holiday in the Mediterranean, a never realized idea. The Jeanneau would be perfect for such trip.

 

[dctom]

Hey Paolo, let me know if you need any crew!!

 

[caliaripaolo]

Hey Paolo, let me know if you need any crew!!

I will do it!!!

 

[KeithR]

Although some manufacturers are speculating, many are pushing SOTA sound reproduction to new levels. IMHO in the past we had products that achieved extraordinary sound reproduction with some recordings or some type of music - we are now achieving this extraordinary level with most recordings, extracting from them unexpected information and musical enjoyment. Surely, sound reproduction is an hobby, and no rational argument can pretend to explain our irrational behavior and expenses in hobbies.

I'll disagree - I've heard a zillion uber-expensive systems at shows (and dealers and homes) and am rarely impressed. I really don't get the argument that SOTA has to cost that much. My favorite "SOTA" system at LAAS was based on a $60k speaker (Vandy 7mk2).

No, I have not heard the WAMM. And no I don't believe in these huge "R&D costs" that some proclaim to justify such stuff.