Doctor's Orders-Part Two-The New Listening Room Of Steve Williams

[bonzo75]

Now that my friend marty has finally done the "big reveal" of his new speakers and has chosen the Wilson X2 S2 as his last best speakerI feel I can now comment about the simple, quick and much to my amazement a highly effective tweak he used to help my system..

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...at-loudspeaker&p=429261&viewfull=1#post429261

I have known marty for many years and his scientific approach to audio has never ceased to amaze me. I knew 6 weeks ago when he was tearing the hair out of his head with the set up of the speakers that he would get it right. What I found fascinating was the comments about rake angle of the woofer module of the speaker. The longest part of this very simple exercise was the drive to Home Depot to buy a digital level. Using a bubble level my speakers were completely level however when we used the digital level my right speaker was down 0.1 degree and my left speaker was down 0.3 degrees. Marty has found that a quarter turn elongation of the spikes on the front corrects a 0.1 degree change. I was amazed that in fact that was the case and in less than 10 minutes we were done.

Overall effect was a much tighter and better defined bass. I would never have imagined such a small change would create such a big change but nonetheless the facts were the facts. In our measurements with the digital level we also found that even though the bubble stated that my speakers were level the digital level showed a 0.2 degree canting inwards of each speaker. Apparently according to Sunnil Merchant a small 0.2 degree inward cant has been shown for reasons unknown to improve the sound so we decided that what I had was a good thing and we left this unchanged and without correction.

Perhaps marty might find time to comment here as well abut the changes we heard when we adjusted the rake angle of each speaker upward by 0.1-0.3 degrees as the change was more than subtle. This reminded me of a small 1/4" toe out Nick Doshi had me do with my speakers. That change resulted in widening the sound stage at each ear by 8-9 inches. Previously my speaker set up was by Wilson recommendations where the tweeter was focused at each ear. That 1/4" toe out created a huge change at the listening position so I am sure that changing the rake angle by such a small amount resulted in the improved bass we were hearing

Impressive. The change needs to be a sticky

 

[Leif S]

Now that my friend marty has finally done the "big reveal" of his new speakers and has chosen the Wilson X2 S2 as his last best speakerI feel I can now comment about the simple, quick and much to my amazement a highly effective tweak he used to help my system..

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...at-loudspeaker&p=429261&viewfull=1#post429261

I have known marty for many years and his scientific approach to audio has never ceased to amaze me. I knew 6 weeks ago when he was tearing the hair out of his head with the set up of the speakers that he would get it right. What I found fascinating was the comments about rake angle of the woofer module of the speaker. The longest part of this very simple exercise was the drive to Home Depot to buy a digital level. Using a bubble level my speakers were completely level however when we used the digital level my right speaker was down 0.1 degree and my left speaker was down 0.3 degrees. Marty has found that a quarter turn elongation of the spikes on the front corrects a 0.1 degree change. I was amazed that in fact that was the case and in less than 10 minutes we were done.

Overall effect was a much tighter and better defined bass. I would never have imagined such a small change would create such a big change but nonetheless the facts were the facts. In our measurements with the digital level we also found that even though the bubble stated that my speakers were level the digital level showed a 0.2 degree canting inwards of each speaker. Apparently according to Sunnil Merchant a small 0.2 degree inward cant has been shown for reasons unknown to improve the sound so we decided that what I had was a good thing and we left this unchanged and without correction.

Perhaps marty might find time to comment here as well abut the changes we heard when we adjusted the rake angle of each speaker upward by 0.1-0.3 degrees as the change was more than subtle. This reminded me of a small 1/4" toe out Nick Doshi had me do with my speakers. That change resulted in widening the sound stage at each ear by 8-9 inches. Previously my speaker set up was by Wilson recommendations where the tweeter was focused at each ear. That 1/4" toe out created a huge change at the listening position so I am sure that changing the rake angle by such a small amount resulted in the improved bass we were hearing

It was not subtle change. The fine tuning Marty and you implemented was a huge improvement. Your systems is definitely firing on all 12 cylinders.

 

[marty]

Now that my friend marty has finally done the "big reveal" of his new speakers and has chosen the Wilson X2 S2 as his last best speakerI feel I can now comment about the simple, quick and much to my amazement a highly effective tweak he used to help my system..

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...at-loudspeaker&p=429261&viewfull=1#post429261

I have known marty for many years and his scientific approach to audio has never ceased to amaze me. I knew 6 weeks ago when he was tearing the hair out of his head with the set up of the speakers that he would get it right. What I found fascinating was the comments about rake angle of the woofer module of the speaker. The longest part of this very simple exercise was the drive to Home Depot to buy a digital level. Using a bubble level my speakers were completely level however when we used the digital level my right speaker was down 0.1 degree and my left speaker was down 0.3 degrees. Marty has found that a quarter turn elongation of the spikes on the front corrects a 0.1 degree change. I was amazed that in fact that was the case and in less than 10 minutes we were done.

Overall effect was a much tighter and better defined bass. I would never have imagined such a small change would create such a big change but nonetheless the facts were the facts. In our measurements with the digital level we also found that even though the bubble stated that my speakers were level the digital level showed a 0.2 degree canting inwards of each speaker. Apparently according to Sunnil Merchant a small 0.2 degree inward cant has been shown for reasons unknown to improve the sound so we decided that what I had was a good thing and we left this unchanged and without correction.

Perhaps marty might find time to comment here as well abut the changes we heard when we adjusted the rake angle of each speaker upward by 0.1-0.3 degrees as the change was more than subtle. This reminded me of a small 1/4" toe out Nick Doshi had me do with my speakers. That change resulted in widening the sound stage at each ear by 8-9 inches. Previously my speaker set up was by Wilson recommendations where the tweeter was focused at each ear. That 1/4" toe out created a huge change at the listening position so I am sure that changing the rake angle by such a small amount resulted in the improved bass we were hearing

Thanks to Steve and Leif for the kind set-up comments. But again, I have to credit to Sunil Merchant who taught me that the use of a digital level capable of resolving 0.1 degree changes is the key. When I first examined my speakers, which I thought were flat, they were actually firing 0.2 degrees into the floor. Same with Steve's speakers. One of his subs was firing 0.3 degrees into the floor. Not good, not good at all. When we fixed these issues, voila! A marked improvement was clearly heard in the tightness and extension of the bass with a slightly more uniform frequency response.

 

[Steve Williams]

Thanks to Steve and Leif for the kind set-up comments. But again, I have to credit to Sunil Merchant who taught me that the use of a digital level capable of resolving 0.1 degree changes is the key. When I first examined my speaker, which I thought were flat, they were actually firing 0.2 degrees into the floor. Same with Steve's speakers. One of his subs was firing 0.3 degrees into the floor. Not good, not good at all. When we fixed these issues, voila! A marked improvement was clearly heard in the tightness and extension of the bass with a slightly more uniform frequency response.

I forgot to add the subs Marty. Thanks for the reminder. we put a penny under each of the front feet of one sub and a dime under each of the front feet of the other sub and yes voila a marked improvement. I was stunned

 

[LL21]

...Previously my speaker set up was by Wilson recommendations where the tweeter was focused at each ear. That 1/4" toe out created a huge change at the listening position so I am sure that changing the rake angle by such a small amount resulted in the improved bass we were hearing

Agree here also...in addition to a 3/16" change in the position of 1 Wilson module making a difference between 'ideal' and an over-ripe midrange that also lost upper treble clarity, air and openness, we also set up the tweeters firing 'just past' the ears.

 

[PeterA]

Steve, those are impressive results. Congratulations. I noticed something similar when I used a digital laser (from Home Depot) to set up my speakers. Could you share the details about which digital level you used? I might consider getting one. Have you checked your turntable platter with the digital level?

 

[Steve Williams]

Yes yes and yes

The turntable was completely level

The level I used was a 10" digital level made by Husky. Cost $65 but I returned it the following day

https://www.amazon.com/Husky-10-Dig...sr=1-1&keywords=husky+digital+level+10+inches

we also checked the level on my rack and it was perfectly level

 

[marty]

I forgot to add the subs Marty. Thanks for the reminder. we put a penny under each of the front feet of one sub and a dime under each of the front feet of the other sub and yes voila a marked improvement. I was stunned

Steve, you can't just say we added pennies and dimes, etc. This is audiophile land! You have to give the dates and the mints on those damn coins!

 

[rockitman]

Steve, you can't just say we added pennies and dimes, etc. This is audiophile land! You have to give the dates and the mints on those damn coins!

where did you take your level measurement of the bass cabinet ? Were the upper modules removed to find true level (area used to measure level) on the cabinet ?

 

[rockitman]

Yes yes and yes

The turntable was completely level

The level I used was a 10" digital level made by Husky. Cost $65 but I returned it the following day

https://www.amazon.com/Husky-10-Dig...sr=1-1&keywords=husky+digital+level+10+inches

we also checked the level on my rack and it was perfectly level

$25 less at Home Depot
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-10-in-Multi-Function-Standard-Digital-Level-THD9403/205999357

 

[Steve Williams]

That's where I bought it and what I paid. It takes all of 10 minutes to diagnose and correct

I was looking for a quick image of it

 

[rockitman]

That's where I bought it and what I paid. It takes all of 10 minutes to diagnose and correct

I was looking for a quick image of it

It was instructive for me to not always assume Amazon has the cheapest prices...

 

[LL21]

Steve, you can't just say we added pennies and dimes, etc. This is audiophile land! You have to give the dates and the mints on those damn coins!

Yes, and i believe dimes before 1910 or something are made out of a different alloy!

 

[PeterA]

Yes yes and yes

The turntable was completely level

The level I used was a 10" digital level made by Husky. Cost $65 but I returned it the following day

https://www.amazon.com/Husky-10-Dig...sr=1-1&keywords=husky+digital+level+10+inches

we also checked the level on my rack and it was perfectly level

Thanks Steve. Now, I have to ask, and please don't be insulted. Did you say each tower is tilted inward (left to right and visa versa) by a slight amount? If so, did you check each Wilson module for consistency? I assume they are all square and level to each other, but it's nice to confirm.

I assume the sub and woofer cabinet was checked for level front to back.

 

[Steve Williams]

Yes again Peter

As I said both speakers canted inwards by 0.2 degrees which from what I am learning is actually a good thing. The speakers were level horizontally but rake angle was down by 0.1-0.2 degrees on either speaker. We left the 0.2 degree cant in and corrected the rake angle to 0.0 degrees

 

[Ron Resnick]

How do you measure .1 or .2 degrees?

 

[Folsom]

Digital level.

 

[marty]

I have been remiss in not commenting on my experience of spending last weekend with Steve listening to his remarkable system. As I told Steve by phone today, although I have heard Steve's system many times before, this last trip was special because I was able to do one of the things I like doing even better than usual; namely, stealing secrets from others that help me go home and make a tweak or two that results in an improvement in my own system. This was now able to be taken to a new level for the obvious reason which is that we now share the same speakers. This was most helpful to eliminate one of the main variables in identifying differences in sound that I could learn from and use to my advantage at home. To begin, I have never heard Steve's system sound better that it did last weekend. Of course, this should not be particularly surprising since he has added a fortress of goodies including interconnects, speaker and AC cables from Masterbuilt as well as new CMS racks. With so many changes, its hard to identify which (or all?) might be adding to the magic but who cares, I was impressed nonetheless. The most exceptional feature of the system is its unequaled midrange reproduction. I have said many times that the Lamm ML-3 is arguably the finest amplifier I have ever heard in its astounding reproduction of the midrange frequencies. My god, male and female vocals provide essentially tonsillar visualization. But vocals do not come from just the throat. In fact the chest and breathing intonations are equally compelling. I think even Steve would agree that his digital rig is due for updating, but I didn't care because once he turned on the phono and tape sources, the drooling was non-stop. I'm certain the combination of the ZYX cartridge and the (once again) magical Lamm phono stage may be among the very finest phono source I have ever heard. Both resolution and dynamics were off the charts, and in fact, it was not a pretty comparison to play the lovely but sedate Ortofon Anna/Graham combo, which we all know ain't too shabby.

I was due to leave on Sunday, but my flight to San Fran was cancelled so I had the opportunity to listen for a 3rd night at Chez Williams and I am pleased to say I put my additional listening time there to good use as I thought long and hard about some speaker positioning tricks i would try when I returned home. These turned out to be particularly helpful for fine tuning the soundstage for the mid and upper frequencies (in particular by slightly adjusting my "Wilson ratio" from 1.24 to a slightly lower 1.20) . Due to the smaller size of Steve's room, bass frequencies are better adjusted in my own room for optimization purposes. But that didn't detract from the insights I gained that were transferrable and indeed beneficial. Some listening highlights were Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah, Mo-Fi's Abraxas (Santana), Mo-Fi's Dead Can Dance and Joni Mitchell's Blue. The Hindemith's concerto on tape is always a crowd pleaser but there were other tunes on a Bruce Brown tape Steve played that knocked me out as well.

Bottom line- once again, the pleasure of visiting fellow hobbyists is a privilege, especially when its a good buddy who you've been doing the audiophile dance with for many years. Steve's system is, simply stated, able to take the listener away to a very special La La Land that is impossible not to admire.
Marty

 

[gshelley]

May have missed reply to Christian's question on where to take the measurements. Would be great if you or Marty could add a few comments here.

 

[jeff1225]

Friday I was lucky enough to have a listening session at Steve's house. I brought some of my favorite records to have him spin on the Air Force One:



-Herbie Hancock: The Prisoner (Japanese pressing)
-Jaki Byard: To Them-To Us (Soul Note)
-Heart: Dreamboat Annie (Nautilus audiophile pressing)
-Tchaikovsky: Serenade in C Major (original Mercury Living Presence)

The playback I heard at Steve's was simply excellent. Super black background, world class imaging and excellent resolution. One of the most engaging and romantic non-horn mid-ranges I've ever experienced. The space between the instruments was also outstanding, especially on the Hancock record. Lastly I will say that the highs were not fatiguing at all, the titanium inverted dome that I've disliked in the past on systems was clear and musical. In my opinion, only Lamm can make Wilsons sing so perfectly. Now this is the first time I've heard Steve's system so I cannot comment on how the new cables and racks have elevated the playback. I would encourage any members who have heard Steve's system in the past to pay another visit.

Thank you Steve for a great visit.