Interesting observation. The switch on my D6000/S is actually a gray shade that seems to match the color of the text. It blends just fine IMHO.
Shunyata DENALI
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Interesting observation. The switch on my D6000/S is actually a gray shade that seems to match the color of the text. It blends just fine IMHO.
Both are "electromagnetic breakers" not power on/off switches. The S model breaker is gray in color. The breakers where chosen for their relative chassis configurations. There are no internal parts or wiring differences between the D6000/S and the D6000/T other than the breaker. The main difference between an S model and a T model is the vertical chassis and the isolation base platform used on the T model.
DENALI Series power conditioners are listed in the new Absolute Sound 2017 Buyers Guide edition. RHs new reference.
Thanks both for your answers.
Sorry to use the wrong term, but won't an electromagnetic breaker work as a power switch or is it not built to be flipped very many times?
I recognize the theoretical benefits of having no additional breaker in the circuit (D2000T) but assume that the breakers chosen for the D6000S and D6000T don't impact the sound yet do provide a switching function for those that want it. Right?
As for aesthetics, I now see how the D6000S gray breaker matches the writing of the model name, but it sticks out in pretty high contrast to the black casework. I personally like how the D6000T black breaker matches the black casework. The D2000T and D6000T also look to have a subtler silver logo vs. the D6000S so look better to me, but those are minor details and I'm interested for the sound much more than the looks.
Sorry to use the wrong term, but won't an electromagnetic breaker work as a power switch or is it not built to be flipped very many times?
I recognize the theoretical benefits of having no additional breaker in the circuit (D2000T) but assume that the breakers chosen for the D6000S and D6000T don't impact the sound yet do provide a switching function for those that want it. Right?
As for aesthetics, I now see how the D6000S gray breaker matches the writing of the model name, but it sticks out in pretty high contrast to the black casework. I personally like how the D6000T black breaker matches the black casework. The D2000T and D6000T also look to have a subtler silver logo vs. the D6000S so look better to me, but those are minor details and I'm interested for the sound much more than the looks.
Caelin or Grant, I have a couple questions if you don't mind answering them:
I have been evaluating a Denali 2000T on my amplifiers and am really impressed by it.
1) Would it be correct to say that the Ztron power cords need current through them for a number of hours before they reach their potential? The reason I ask is that my amps are tubes and I only turn them on when I'm using them and there's no 'standby' mode that draws any current otherwise.
2) If I already have a Typhon on my sources (plugged into one of a pair of duplex outlets), would I be better off getting a Triton V2 or the Denali 6000? Is there any benefit to a Typhon being plugged into a 6000?
Thanks!
I have been evaluating a Denali 2000T on my amplifiers and am really impressed by it.
1) Would it be correct to say that the Ztron power cords need current through them for a number of hours before they reach their potential? The reason I ask is that my amps are tubes and I only turn them on when I'm using them and there's no 'standby' mode that draws any current otherwise.
2) If I already have a Typhon on my sources (plugged into one of a pair of duplex outlets), would I be better off getting a Triton V2 or the Denali 6000? Is there any benefit to a Typhon being plugged into a 6000?
Thanks!
PC Burn-in:
We make "burn-in adapters" that allow you to daisy chain power cords together with an extension cord type outlet at the end. This allows you to plug the chain of cords into a single wall outlet - then plug a fan or lamp into the last cord. This makes it possible to burn-in the power cords without leaving your audio system on.
Some people like the Typhon plugged into the D6000 and others feel the D6000 is fine without it. You should try it yourself since you already have Typhon. Let us know what you prefer.
The breaker should not be used as a "master" switch. This means you should not leave all your components in the on position and then flip the breaker on. This practice can flip the circuit breaker in your electrical panel. The massive current surge can weaken the breaker over a period of time. The correct procedure is to make sure all components are in the off position. Then turn the breaker on. Then turn each component on one at a time with a 10-15 second interval between each.
The electromagnetic breakers are not intended to be used as on/off switches for the system, they are purely for protection. Switching on a system using a breaker represents several issues, foremost of which is the massive in-rush current that can trip your panel breaker or carbonize contacts at your components, wall outlet and breaker. High-end components should all be turned on one at a time, starting with sources and pre-amps and ending with the amps.
One gentleman became upset with us because every morning for years, he would turn on his entire system via his Belkin power conditioner using his big toe (for convenience). He always had used a stock power cord, but one day decided to switch to one of our affordable power cords connecting his Belkin to the wall. The next morning, he went to turn on the system with his toe and everything shut down. Breakers blew and he lost a fuse or two. He believed our power cord had a short. I was able to prove otherwise by having him connect it to a single component. I explained that the increase in peak current efficiency of the better power cord increased the in-rush of instantaneous current and tipped the system over in terms of too much current all at once through the breakers. In addition, when he replaced the breaker and looked at the internals of the wall outlet, the amp IEC (I asked him to) and the panel breaker that fed the system, he found that all the contacts were blackened (carbonized) due to years of turning on all components at once with a single switch. Essentially it was an accident waiting to happen and the superior peak-current (DTCD) efficiency of our power cords was all it took to put the carbonized contacts and system over the edge.
I have explained this any number of times to customers and it is also in our manuals for a good reason. Breakers are for protection and should not be used as on/off switches for the system because it will gradually degrade the contacts of not only the Hydra breaker, but also the breaker at the wall, the outlet and the IEC's of some components. The more a breaker trips or is switching on a system, the easier it will trip when stressed.
I hope this helps explain the role of a good breaker. The electromagnetic breakers we use have massive metal contacts and are the best in the industry, but are still not intended to be used as an on off switch
Best regards,
Grant
Thanks for the reply, Caelin, but you misunderstood my questions, so I am going to rephrase them.
1) In the situation where one already has burned-in Zitron cables, do the cables need to have current through them for a minimum amount of time to perform their best? An example of this would be the Typhon. When inserted in the system it needs up to 5 days to reach top performance. I used to have solid state amps that were on all the time (or at least in standby), drawing at least some amount of current through my Alpha HCs. I noticed that if I switch power cables - or simply unplug them and plug them back in again, it takes a number of hours for them to truly sound their best (or at least that's my perception). Now that I have tube amps that are only turned on when I listen (therefore do not draw any current when I'm not listening), I'm wondering if my Alpha HCs are working against me because they would need a number of hours before they are filtering noise.... or is it the case that as long as the power cables are not moved they perform their best immediately upon the amps being powered up?
2) What should perform better for sources & preamp?
a) Denali 6000
b) Triton v2 + Typhon
Thank you!
The stock photos seem to accentuate the contrast.
I like the look of the D6000/S. Here's mine:
The D6000/S is resting on a set of 3 Stillpoints Ultra Minis. The bamboo board improves the efficacy of these.
What you are noticing is what we call "settling time". It is not burn-in. Burn-in takes days to weeks to occur. When you remove a cable from a component, it disturbs the contact to contact junction and the wires are bent changing the inter-molecular structure of the copper. Depending on how aggressively you bend that cable will determine how long it takes for the cable to settle once you plug it back in. It usually only takes a few minutes to an hour maximum.
Filtering occurs immediately upon insertion of the cable.
Objectively, based on measurements, the Denali has better CCI (component to component isolation). However, noise reduction and CCI are just one aspect of overall performance. The other main performance factor is DTCD (dynamic transient current delivery).
You should give the D6000 a trial and see how it performs in your system.
Thanks for that picture. It does look better than I thought, but since I got swatted down for thinking of using the switch as a switch maybe I'll investigate a power conditioner that does power sequencing so that it turns on my equipment in correct order and timing.
Doesn't your amp default to Standby mode when power is first applied and then you push a button to power it up? I wouldn't imagine the shutting off aspect of the Denali via the front panel button to be an issue as far as current surges and such go if you really have a need to keep the amp off for some reason. Maybe I'm wrong? But in terms of the power on aspect, and assuming the amp defaults to standby I don't see the issue? Just push the power button on the amp to power it up after the Denali main button is re-engaged.
It's not likely you will find some other PC that does what you are describing while at the same time sound as good as a Denali. The side effects of laziness can be bad for you and your systems SQ in this case
Thanks, you're right that Devialet amps boot up into standby mode.
My Devialet 400 start up at 3W for a few seconds then bounce around between 20-45W during boot up, before settling at 28W in standby. When active they use around 55W in my system, so not a massive load. I'm not going to blow my circuit breakers with these amps. My vacuum creates a bigger sure and greater load on a circuit. However I think Caelin and Grant know the Devialet and still say that the surge is bad for the amps, contacts, and power conditioner. I agree with you that the Shunyata is probably the best option for sound quality. I've certainly found that with power cords. I also have more respect for Shunyata than most other companies in this industry. That respect includes believing them about the use of their products though, so I don't want to buy a wonderful product knowing that my use constitutes abuse. Other products are specifically meant to start up a sequence of devices and I thought I should investigate those since they fit how I will actually use the power conditioner.
My Devialet 400 start up at 3W for a few seconds then bounce around between 20-45W during boot up, before settling at 28W in standby. When active they use around 55W in my system, so not a massive load. I'm not going to blow my circuit breakers with these amps. My vacuum creates a bigger sure and greater load on a circuit. However I think Caelin and Grant know the Devialet and still say that the surge is bad for the amps, contacts, and power conditioner. I agree with you that the Shunyata is probably the best option for sound quality. I've certainly found that with power cords. I also have more respect for Shunyata than most other companies in this industry. That respect includes believing them about the use of their products though, so I don't want to buy a wonderful product knowing that my use constitutes abuse. Other products are specifically meant to start up a sequence of devices and I thought I should investigate those since they fit how I will actually use the power conditioner.
Just a point of clarification: There is really no need to turn the electromagnetic breaker off. You just turn your components on/off as you would normally.
There are some components like the Devialet and many TVs and cable boxes that pull a small amount of power even when "off". It is perfectly fine to turn the Denali breaker to the off position to turn these components "completely" off. There are no special concerns when turning the Denali back on since these components default to a standby mode and require you use the remote to turn them "on".
Our primary concern is a massive current surge that occurs if you leave all system componemts (especially amplifiers) in the on position and use the Denali breaker as a master on switch. If you want this capqbility you should get a power sequencer. However, the primary reason someone would get a Denali is for its audio performance. A sequencer would compromise performance significantly especially when used on amplifiers. Someone should build a truly highend power sequencer for complex home theater systems but I don't see large numbers of people clamouring for one.
BTW, the Denalis are very impressive when used for video performance. Try your flat screen or projector through one of the Denali's Z1 or Z2 outlets.
I'm trying to decide on wether or no not upgrade my Triton V1 to a V2 or just go for a Denali 6000. I'll admit the loss of the two outlets would hurt but, I'm kinda confused as I know Shunyata till considers the Hydra line their "Flagship" but, in certain systems perhaps a customer might prefer the Denali over the Triton. From what I've been reading.
I'll have to see if can get a Denali 6000 to compare to my Triton V1. If it's too close to call perhaps the V2 upgrade will send the Triton over the top in my system.
However, if I were to guess and given how technology progresses. I'll bet we will see an 8 outlet Denali one box solution that offers even greater performance of the TritonV2/Typhon stack.
We shall see.
I'll have to see if can get a Denali 6000 to compare to my Triton V1. If it's too close to call perhaps the V2 upgrade will send the Triton over the top in my system.
However, if I were to guess and given how technology progresses. I'll bet we will see an 8 outlet Denali one box solution that offers even greater performance of the TritonV2/Typhon stack.
We shall see.
Woo hoo! Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth. I can use a Denali to eliminate the Devialet vampire load (turn them really off) yet have the best sound quality when using them. Now I just need to decide between the 6000S or 6000T (form factor, price, and aesthetics).
The D6000 Tower definitely has the "wow" factor going for it with its vertical design. However, the D6000 Shelf model has the exact same technology and performance capability with a $1000 savings. I would chose the model that suits your aesthetic requirements. If you have the available shelf space go for the shelf model. Get the optional SSF-50s (50mm stainless steel feet) or go crazy with a set of StillPoints.
Choose the Tower model if you don't have any shelf space left or you just like how it looks next to your component rack. It has its own integrated isolation base built-in so you don't need an expensive amp stand. Just set it on the floor next to your equipment rack. It has a very narrow profile designed to fit into a tight spaces beside the racks and speakers. It also makes it possible to use very short run power cords to eliminate the power cord mess behind the racks.
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