Arender x100/s10 vs CAPS Pipeline

[bonzo75]

Any direct comparisons done yet? I am building a CAPS pipeline, pkease stop me now if you have heard the s10 or x100 and think it's better sonically, because the used value of those products is comparable

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Any direct comparisons done yet? I am building a CAPS pipeline, pkease stop me now if you have heard the s10 or x100 and think it's better sonically, because the used value of those products is comparable

No direct comparisons but unless you have esoteric requirements such as multi-channel playback or wanting to run room correction then I don't see why you'd build a CAPS. The price for an Aurender N100 is in the same ballpark and it is a better solution - silent, better usability, more reliable, great app with TIDAL integration, easy to setup.

FYI I've had both mac and windows PCs here for many, many years. Now that you can buy dedicated, purpose designed hardware/software for the same price as a CAPS I see no reason to build one unless you have some esoteric requirements that the dedicated hardware does not support.

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks, What about SQ? I assume you would have experience with Win 12 with Audiophile Optimiser and HQ Player on Caps?

I could put a room corrector after the preamp as well

 

[edorr]

Thanks, What about SQ? I assume you would have experience with Win 12 with Audiophile Optimiser and HQ Player on Caps?

I could put a room corrector after the preamp as well

You have to consider SQ with the entire signal path in mind. So while CAPS and aurender may be at par as a digital source, I believe running DRC (Dirac Live or other) on the CAPS will handily beat using aurender and running DRC on an additional box. In my experience (and I have tried many archtectures, including DRC on dedicated Trinnov box), shorting the signal path and consolidating devices, pays big dividends in sound quality.

 

[bonzo75]

You have to consider SQ with the entire signal path in mind. So while CAPS and aurender may be at par as a digital source, I believe running DRC (Dirac Live or other) on the CAPS will handily beat using aurender and running DRC on an additional box. In my experience (and I have tried many archtectures, including DRC on dedicated Trinnov box), shorting the signal path and consolidating devices, pays big dividends in sound quality.

Thanks. What about non DRC, does the CAPS do as well as the smaller Aurender boxes?

 

[edorr]

Thanks. What about non DRC, does the CAPS do as well as the smaller Aurender boxes?

Can't tell. Have not tried. I have used quite a few different servers (all PC based), and contrary to conventional wisdom, the differences are not that big. So assuming Aurender is building a competent dedicated server I make the inference it won't be that far apart from a CAPS. The CAPS does of course have the benefit of allowing you to fiddle with hardware (i.e. USB cards) operating systems, optimizer, JPlay and so on. I never really bothered doing this.

However, I did observe material difference consolidating boxes and shortening signal paths, hence my earlier comment. Just one man's opinion of course, and others have reported far more significant changes between servers.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Thanks, What about SQ? I assume you would have experience with Win 12 with Audiophile Optimiser and HQ Player on Caps?

I could put a room corrector after the preamp as well

I can't see how a general purpose Windows box even with tweaky optimization software and esoteric USB cards could ever sound better than a piece of dedicated hardware with a linear power supply running a dedicated custom written OS.

I have not experimented massively with all the tweaky stuff as I'm not interested. Furthest I got was comparing my CAPS Zuma kinda-build (no SoTM USB card) with Aurender N100. Aurender clearly better, but a subtle change across many sonic elements.

Everything is a compromise. Maybe one day Aurender will release a server with enough DSP power to run Dirac, or the forthcoming "Roon Speakers" will allow routing of the audio from Roon via Dirac on your Roon server computer to the Aurender. In any event, if your room is well designed and treated, you may only need EQ in the low bass, below 50 or maybe 60Hz. I only run one band of EQ in my showroom, at 30Hz or so. At the recent CA Audio Show I only ran room correction for our hotel room below 70Hz.

 

[bonzo75]

I thought at least the x100 had an smps. Not sure about n100. The caps will have a linear power supply

 

[edorr]

The benefits of going the DIY route were primarily in useability and price; a $2K (+ 1K for battery or LPS) well designed / build PC based system could go toe to toe with the 5 figure dedicated servers, and the Jriver / Jremote combo offered better useability than the clumsy linux based propretary alternatives. From what I understand, useability of the mega bucks "the beast" still sucks.

However, technology moves on and it is very conceivable the N100 has brought down the pricepoint and improved useability of the dedicated server approach to the point that this benefit has disappeared. If so, I would agree that unless you need DRC or MCH, I would not bother with a PC based appraoch.

 

[edorr]

I thought at least the x100 had an smps. Not sure about n100. The caps will have a linear power supply

Not sure about the CAPS 4, but the CAPS 3 has a battery.

 

[Hyperion]

No direct comparisons but unless you have esoteric requirements such as multi-channel playback or wanting to run room correction then I don't see why you'd build a CAPS. The price for an Aurender N100 is in the same ballpark and it is a better solution - silent, better usability, more reliable, great app with TIDAL integration, easy to setup.

FYI I've had both mac and windows PCs here for many, many years. Now that you can buy dedicated, purpose designed hardware/software for the same price as a CAPS I see no reason to build one unless you have some esoteric requirements that the dedicated hardware does not support.

I agree. Also, don't forget to consider the resale value (Aurender vs. DIY server) as part of the equation when looking at the economics.

 

[edorr]

I agree. Also, don't forget to consider the resale value (Aurender vs. DIY server) as part of the equation when looking at the economics.

Good point. I have a CAPS 2.0 collecting dust, a CAPS 3.0 listed on audiogon (no takers) and another $4K PC multi media server I can't sell. PC based digital front ends are the only pieces of gear I am taking massive depreciation hits on.

 

[bonzo75]

Got this feedback from a guy who had EMM dac 2x and Focal Scala Utopias

"I had two CAPS and a Mac Mini, and they beat the S10 and X100 easily.. this is even without AO or anything fancy. For the Mac, I had to do some changes including to linear PSU to bring the performance up to par, but the base mac mini had some aspects which sounded better to me already.

As it is more convenient to use, I wanted the Aurender to win so badly that I bought a X100L to tinker with it for a longer period, but gave up eventually.

Have not tried the N100. Spent a few weeks with S10 and X100L respectively.. one thing I did not try was to put it on a linear PSU - did not want to mod as I decided to sell already."

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...hile-pocket-server-pipeline-25476/#post456273

 

[edorr]

Got this feedback from a guy who had EMM dac 2x and Focal Scala Utopias

"I had two CAPS and a Mac Mini, and they beat the S10 and X100 easily.. this is even without AO or anything fancy. For the Mac, I had to do some changes including to linear PSU to bring the performance up to par, but the base mac mini had some aspects which sounded better to me already.

As it is more convenient to use, I wanted the Aurender to win so badly that I bought a X100L to tinker with it for a longer period, but gave up eventually.

Have not tried the N100. Spent a few weeks with S10 and X100L respectively.. one thing I did not try was to put it on a linear PSU - did not want to mod as I decided to sell already."

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...hile-pocket-server-pipeline-25476/#post456273

The beauty (or problem) with this hobby is no one agrees on even the most basic stuff, so your only recourse is trying stuff yourself (if you have the patience and appetite). If not, you make a choice based on second hand information, which is a roll of the dice.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Where does a NAS and an Auralic Aries stack up in this face off?

 

[asiufy]

Where does a NAS and an Auralic Aries stack up in this face off?

They sound very different (Aries and Aurender).

The Aries is more vivid, detailed, with sharper decays, so it gives an immediate impression of resolution. Depending on one' setup, this could be the ticket.

The Aurender (N10) is more natural and laid back.

My ideal set up would be the Aries software, with the Aurender hardware


alexandre

 

[Hyperion]

Got this feedback from a guy who had EMM dac 2x and Focal Scala Utopias

"I had two CAPS and a Mac Mini, and they beat the S10 and X100 easily.. this is even without AO or anything fancy. For the Mac, I had to do some changes including to linear PSU to bring the performance up to par, but the base mac mini had some aspects which sounded better to me already.

As it is more convenient to use, I wanted the Aurender to win so badly that I bought a X100L to tinker with it for a longer period, but gave up eventually.

Have not tried the N100. Spent a few weeks with S10 and X100L respectively.. one thing I did not try was to put it on a linear PSU - did not want to mod as I decided to sell already."

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...hile-pocket-server-pipeline-25476/#post456273

Individual findings are of course what matters in the end, but I have to question this conclusion. I've been working with Aurender for close to three years now in Scandinavia, and up to this point, no one has found their non-optimized computers or CAPS superior to the Aurender units - neither performance wise (SQ) or in relation to easy of setup and use. I've also had clients comparing Auralic Aries to the Aurender N100 where the N100 has comed out as the clear winner performance wise in these particular systems. That said, the S10 is getting a bit dated where I believe you should look at the new X/N100-series or N10, especially if comparing USB-interfaces. The application and user interface is also in need of an update - which is in the pipeline.

/ Marcus

 

[Audiophile Bill]

They sound very different (Aries and Aurender).

The Aries is more vivid, detailed, with sharper decays, so it gives an immediate impression of resolution. Depending on one' setup, this could be the ticket.

The Aurender (N10) is more natural and laid back.

My ideal set up would be the Aries software, with the Aurender hardware


alexandre

Thanks a lot, Alexandre.

 

[bonzo75]

Individual findings are of course what matters in the end, but I have to question this conclusion. I've been working with Aurender for close to three years now in Scandinavia, and up to this point, no one has found their non-optimized computers or CAPS superior to the Aurender units - neither performance wise (SQ) or in relation to easy of setup and use. I've also had clients comparing Auralic Aries to the Aurender N100 where the N100 has comed out as the clear winner performance wise in these particular systems. That said, the S10 is getting a bit dated where I believe you should look at the new X/N100-series or N10, especially if comparing USB-interfaces. The application and user interface is also in need of an update - which is in the pipeline.

/ Marcus

Thanks. N10 is a different price bracket. I will compare the N100 to CAPS. I will not be considering Aries so it will be N100 or Caps

 

[Hyperion]

Good point. I have a CAPS 2.0 collecting dust, a CAPS 3.0 listed on audiogon (no takers) and another $4K PC multi media server I can't sell. PC based digital front ends are the only pieces of gear I am taking massive depreciation hits on.

Thanks. N10 is a different price bracket. I will compare the N100 to CAPS. I will not be considering Aries so it will be N100 or Caps

OK - please let us know what you think when ready! Have fun