Pass Labs XA200.8 vs. the world...

[Albikes]

I'm contemplating the big mono blocks to power my YG Anat Pro Passives(heh, good pun there). What would you guys compare in price/performance ratio? My preamp is ARC Ref40. Thanks for the ideas.

al

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey mate,

I don't know your listening tastes, and what type of music you actually prefer. Having the YG's that's a pretty awesome speaker system itself. For that kind of price range I would go for something like Vitus or Gryphon, or even Dan's Momentums. The new Pass series hasn't realty impressed me at all. Just had a topsy-turvy show down with Pass XA160.8, VTL 750's, MC452 and my humble MV60SE. Preamps were from McIntosh and top of the line VTL; conclusion, The Pass XA160.8 mono's didn't match the rest of the amplification in musicality... Instead they just managed to drive the Ribbon speakers, which were Audio Analysis Omega's.

Hope you find what you're looking for,
Cheers, RJ

 

[rbbert]

Consider, though, that the Analysis Audios are very different speakers than the YG's; I'm not sure how much those findings will translate.

 

[Albikes]

Big Dog RJ,

Thanks for the suggestions, and remind me that I definitely need to in house demo which ever amp I go with. This again leads me to Pass with simple upgrade and audition paths. I'll go read about the analysis speakers though and please keep the comments rolling in.

Cheers,

Al

 

[MadFloyd]

Hey mate,

I don't know your listening tastes, and what type of music you actually prefer. Having the YG's that's a pretty awesome speaker system itself. For that kind of price range I would go for something like Vitus or Gryphon, or even Dan's Momentums. The new Pass series hasn't realty impressed me at all. Just had a topsy-turvy show down with Pass XA160.8, VTL 750's, MC452 and my humble MV60SE. Preamps were from McIntosh and top of the line VTL; conclusion, The Pass XA160.8 mono's didn't match the rest of the amplification in musicality... Instead they just managed to drive the Ribbon speakers, which were Audio Analysis Omega's.

Hope you find what you're looking for,
Cheers, RJ

RJ, would love to hear a bit more about why you didn't think the XA160.8's weren't musical.

 

[dallasjustice]

A good high power and very low impedance output stage is what you want to control all that sealed box woofery and midrange, JMO.

 

[Albikes]

Hello Dallas,

Thanks for chimming in. You gave a nice recommendation for the YGs summer 2013, passives were the way to go. Which amps fit the bill as you describe low impedance? It's the high freq crossover that dips to 2.7ohms on the Anats. Woofs not too far above that. Do you mean an amp that will drive those low impedances? Pass XA does that

 

[mcduman]

i agree with high power & good damping. i was a happy owner of the anats, and if I still had them today i would try them with krell evos.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, this is what we came across from the first instant the pass amps were hooked up.
Considering the other contenders, VTL, c-j, Mcintosh and prior to that on a separate occasion the ArcRef75, which I also took home for a short demo, they were far more musical than the pass amps. Perhaps thus us due to being tubes, other than of course the MC452, which is SS but with a very warm lush presentation.

In terms of musicality at its best, there are only two greats that I prefer with panels (ribbons & stats) , and that being c-j and Lamm. On tubes they are simply superb in regards to magical midrange and most of all soundstage and musicality.

In terms of SS I could only think of Vitus, Gryphon, Dans Momentums and the formidable Naim Statements.

However, like I said the chap who runs pass also has the SF Amatis, and thid is a wonderful match. Hence, not so great on ribbons and stats.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Albikes]

RJ you are up early in Melbourne! I just sent friends in Brizzy a message. Interesting that you didn't find the Pass amps to work with ribbons. It was six years ago that I fell for the the x.5 and xa's driving a Apogee speakers.mthey had very good control of those low impedance panels. For my house I've found dynamic drivers and cabinets to be a better match, thus now I'm out amp hunting. Seriously, the Pass Labs XA series are notorious for their detail, liquidity and musicality in presentation. Also as being very robust and powerful, I think a great performer at the $35-40k price point.

Al

 

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Al,

Yes, no doubt they are. That's what I do agree with. The Pass amps (for that matter any pass labs amp) are well capable of driving virtually anything. They are also very good with older ribbons such as Apogees and Magneplanars. Infact one of my favourite sounds in the good old days were Pass amps driving the big Apogee Diva's which I had, and then moved on towards Audio Research hence the journey with tubes began along with c-j as front end equipment.

Like I said before, if someone is hooked onto that Pass Labs sound, then you will like it, and I must say it is actually quite superb. However, the issues start with system matching and price points. For me in SS designs regardless of price: 1. Naim Statements, 2. Vitus Audio, 3. Dan's Momentums, 4. Pass Labs. Then comes along McIntosh which is in my budget category, being one of my favourite in "true value" in amplification. You don't have to spend a huge amount on Mac amps, and they deliver the goods equally well compared to the best!

Apart from that, if it were tubes for that kind of money, I'd definitely go for the top of the line c-j ART monoblocks, or the Lamms. Perhaps the hybrids or the ML1 series amps.
BTW, have you ever considered the Lamms? I think their Solid state monoblocks are in this similar price range if I'm correct in US pricing. In my opinion for that kind of money (35 to 40 grand) I would definitely give the Lamm's an audition. They are outstanding and probably second to none!

Check with other members on the forum in ref to Lamm monoblocks, I am sure someone has a pair of SS mono's that can be auditioned, or they can comment on driving your YG's.
Personally, I would not blow that much $$$ on amplification for Pass Labs, unless they were the "XS" series, which is in a different league altogether. I have auditioned the XS series driving Magico's and SF Strads speakers in S-pore, and were both wonderful systems to enjoy!

Sincerely if you are amp hunting, and want to spend towards the 40 grand range, I strongly believe there are far better designs out there. Then again, perhaps you are very pleased with the after sales service and dealer relationship with Pass, so therefore you would obviously prefer upgrading to Pass. This is the exact similar case with the chappy who owns the Omega's. The AA ribbons dealership in Melbourne is a bit crappy, no one has said anything good about the chaps over here. However, the VTL customer service is superb, second to none, and that is one of the main reasons he is sticking with VTL.

Similarly with my present system, being c-j and Quad, they are golden chaps to deal with, and I cannot thing of ever changing that. At the end of the day it is not just the gear, Especially at this price point in high-end systems, you really need someone great people to back you up, not some silly goose! who just wants to sell their systems...

Anyway, I hope it all works out, please do let me know if you ever get a chance to audition those Lamm's, I know for a fact that you wouldn't be disappointed!
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[dallasjustice]

My favorite amp is the Mola Mola Kaluga. I've owned and used with YG the following in order of my preference:
Krell 900e
Soulution 710
BMC
Dartzeel
Luxman

I've also so heard:
JRDG
Ayre

 

[scouter]

I think you should audition Spectral. I had Carmels, and the 260 made those things sing! The same 260 is now driving Magico S5s with aplomb, and trust me, it will grab hold of the woofers for nice bass control. IMHO

 

[Albikes]

These are some great suggestions you guys. Thanks!

Dallas - interesting to hear you like the class D amp more than those other BIG amps like Krell, Solution, Dartz etc. I'm shying away from the Class D from experience with noisy Hypex in the past. The Krell catches my eye and will do some research.

RJ- the VTL sound I like, but I only want to run tubes in my Ref 40 preamp, for power I want SS.

Scouter - Spectral is a new one on the map of considerations. I heard them once with Wilsons. Nice, but didn't blow me away. I'll do some reading though.

Decision time is 1-2 months away, so I will start looking at in home audition options.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

Al

 

[dallasjustice]

These are some great suggestions you guys. Thanks!

Dallas - interesting to hear you like the class D amp more than those other BIG amps like Krell, Solution, Dartz etc. I'm shying away from the Class D from experience with noisy Hypex in the past. The Krell catches my eye and will do some

Al,
There are many different amps that will sound great. Of course, you want the best match. My experience amp shopping is that the manufacturers who make amps with "no feedback" designs tend to have much higher output impedance. Those amps pair least well with the YG Anat. I also used to own the Carmel. It's a totally different speaker. It's very easy to drive. It sounded great with Dartzeel. But the Dart had to go when I got the big boys.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with regard to hypex. I know that there aren't many, if any, amps with a lower noise floor than the Kaulga. Class D has changed a lot. There's nothing better, if you like complex and dynamic music.
Michael.

 

[rockitman]

A good high power and very low impedance output stage is what you want to control all that sealed box woofery and midrange, JMO.

Boulder fits the bill. Pass XS 300 will also drive everything.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes indeed! The Pass "XS" series are in a different league altogether. I always wondered why the hec Pass didn't put that same technology into their other amps, such as the XA series...
But then again it's all about the business and making the bucks from the big guys, hence when a pair is sold, they are well off to some good margins! Afterall this is a business and not a charity.

Rockitman: Your XS 150 amps are awesome, I heard these massive things driving Magico's and Wilson's in S-pore. I bet you must be getting some serious soundstage presence from the Pass and Wilson combination! Great stuff mate, wish I was able to hear these off the X2's. That would be a very special sound to enjoy.
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[rockitman]

Yes indeed! The Pass "XS" series are in a different league altogether. I always wondered why the hec Pass didn't put that same technology into their other amps, such as the XA series...
But then again it's all about the business and making the bucks from the big guys, hence when a pair is sold, they are well off to some good margins! Afterall this is a business and not a charity.

Rockitman: Your XS 150 amps are awesome, I heard these massive things driving Magico's and Wilson's in S-pore. I bet you must be getting some serious soundstage presence from the Pass and Wilson combination! Great stuff mate, wish I was able to hear these off the X2's. That would be a very special sound to enjoy.
Cheers mate, RJ

Well thank you RJ. They really came to life when I put the XS pre in the path a week ago.

 

[Albikes]

The XS Amps and Pre really are something to dream about. Possibly stepwise I can work my way there. Will have to buy a chill suit for summer listening though ;-)

 

[Alpinist]

Yes indeed! The Pass "XS" series are in a different league altogether. I always wondered why the hec Pass didn't put that same technology into their other amps, such as the XA series...
But then again it's all about the business and making the bucks from the big guys, hence when a pair is sold, they are well off to some good margins! Afterall this is a business and not a charity.

Rockitman: Your XS 150 amps are awesome, I heard these massive things driving Magico's and Wilson's in S-pore. I bet you must be getting some serious soundstage presence from the Pass and Wilson combination! Great stuff mate, wish I was able to hear these off the X2's. That would be a very special sound to enjoy.
Cheers mate, RJ

Hi RJ,

The Pass XA.8 Series amps do use a similar topology to the Pass XS Series amps. According to Pass Labs, starting with the XA.5 Series, the XA.8 Series take you approximately half way to the XS Series in terms of performance, sound quality and parts quality. According to a number of owners I've spoken to, the XS Series is still significantly better than the XA.8 Series.

Best,
Ken