Which speakers have the best off axis performance?

[zztop7]

You are right. I'm just a music lover.

Michael.

+1 & +1
Thank you,
zz.

 

[microstrip]

I understand (and agree with all that, of course) but it has mostly to do with the artistry of Strauss, Fleming, et al., and says that the sytem conveyed that to me. Perhaps my remarks conveyed some emotional response to you (intended) but what did you take from it that differentiates the equipment in use from any other?

I have listened to many systems having great accuracy but that were not able to create the effect you describe and I have also experienced "Here Ms. Fleming’s glorious soprano soared over the spacious carpet of Strauss’ orchestra and thrilled me". The subjective unique perception suggested by the words soared, spacious carpet and thrilled made me believe that your really felt it and the speakers in the configuration described were able to transmit it.

I must say appreciate when a reviewer is not afraid of using appropriately terms such as thrilling or goose hums.

 

[dallasjustice]

+1 & +1
Thank you,
zz.

Btw, Billy Gibbons graduated from Robert E. Lee high school in Houston. That's where I went to high school. I am only 40 though so I never met him. Why is the guy named Beard the only one without a beard? I never figured that one out.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi Kal,
What's the importance of a high end system if it can't convey the artistry of Strauss, Fleming, et al.?
david

Sure but, as I said, one can get that from a table radio. The kick I get from a high end system is my personal emotional response.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have listened to many systems having great accuracy but that were not able to create the effect you describe and I have also experienced "Here Ms. Fleming’s glorious soprano soared over the spacious carpet of Strauss’ orchestra and thrilled me". The subjective unique perception suggested by the words soared, spacious carpet and thrilled made me believe that your really felt it and the speakers in the configuration described were able to transmit it.

I must say appreciate when a reviewer is not afraid of using appropriately terms such as thrilling or goose hums.

OK, OK. But what do you learn from that?

 

[rockitman]

Btw, Billy Gibbons graduated from Robert E. Lee high school in Houston. That's where I went to high school. I am only 40 though so I never met him. Why is the guy named Beard the only one without a beard? I never figured that one out.

Jerry Garcia was a big fan of Gibbons and of course Coltrane as his style of lead portrayed. ..a guitar version of jazz improvisational sax.

 

[ddk]

Sure but, as I said, one can get that from a table radio. The kick I get from a high end system is my personal emotional response.

Yes, you can get that from some table radios and there's the rub for me when it comes to high end systems costing tens of thousands. The gear head in me is always interested in the equipment but he gets bored very quickly without that other thing. I've probably been at this a bit too long...

david

 

[zztop7]

Btw, Billy Gibbons graduated from Robert E. Lee high school in Houston. That's where I went to high school. I am only 40 though so I never met him. Why is the guy named Beard the only one without a beard? I never figured that one out.

Beard is Frank Beard and was called by the nickname Rube when ZZ Top started. Beard with no beard is ??? / I guess better than Beard 1 & Beard 2 & Beard 3 & Rube.

zztop7 is just a name that popped out when I needed a "user name". I do not even own a ZZ Top recording [I do appreciate their style & sound].

40 years old - you are a youngster & that is an >>EXTREME COMPLIMENT<<< - no one should read it any other way or twist it. Try to stay 40; if you can get back to 30 even better.

Best to you,
zz.

 

[microstrip]

OK, OK. But what do you learn from that?

A lot. From start, that the review was carried by someone who cares about the subjective aspects of music, and that the system could create an enveloping sound, with excellent good focusing capability. That the microdynamics and tonal qualities needed for creating the "spacious carpet" were present. That speaker (and system) headroom were appropriate. And even a few I can not describe appropriately in words, I am not a reviewer, just a reader ... Surely the sentence should be taken in the context of the whole review, that is filled with very subjective and interesting findings. Single quotes can be misleading, I prefer to list the link http://www.stereophile.com/content/bampw-800-diamond-loudspeaker-page-2.

IMHO, any one wanting to get information from a review must know the reviewer and his preferences and his emotions. It is not possible to get it from a single capsule review - readers should carry their homework.

 

[microstrip]

Yes, you can get that from some table radios and there's the rub for me when it comes to high end systems costing tens of thousands. The gear head in me is always interested in the equipment but he gets bored very quickly without that other thing. I've probably been at this a bit too long...

david

David,

F. Toole addressed the table radio / emotion argument in his book "Sound Reproduction". In the end it is related to statistics and place - you want to feel the emotion systematically in a certain place, not when the the gods decide it and the the birds are singing. For me this is the real reason of high quality sound reproduction.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

IMHO, any one wanting to get information from a review must know the reviewer and his preferences and his emotions. It is not possible to get it from a single capsule review - readers should carry their homework.

Exactly. My choices of music and my comments about them tell you more about me than about the sound. However, they do provide a context for the specific comments about the equipment/sound.

 

[hifikontoen]

Interesting thread.

+1

 

[hifikontoen]

I
As to measurements: They do matter, if done right. If Stereophile measured YGs, then you could expect that all of them will measure exactly the same way. I strongly believe these type of measurements directly relate to subjective enjoyment.

Michael.

I agree with you in that measurements matter.
In fact JBL has done research (blind tests) showing significantly that people prefer good measuring speakers before not so good measuring speakers (unfortunately I do not have the link).
JBL has a room with a "motorized assembly line" which easily replaces a pair of speakers with another one, making this research possible (for most of us, such a precise blind comparison of speakers is difficult).
This says that this hobby is not so subjective as some say.

(Regarding YG: As you probably know, Stereophile has measured YG's performance).

 

[cpp]

I agree with you in that measurements matter.
In fact JBL has done research (blind tests) showing significantly that people prefer good measuring speakers before not so good measuring speakers (unfortunately I do not have the link).
JBL has a room with a "motorized assembly line" which easily replaces a pair of speakers with another one, making this research possible (for most of us, such a precise blind comparison of speakers is difficult).
This says that this hobby is not so subjective as some say.

(Regarding YG: As you probably know, Stereophile has measured YG's performance).

Hifikontoen is this the link http://www.uniquesquared.com/blog/pro-audio/jbl-hearing-the-truth-testing/

 

[ddk]

This says that this hobby is not so subjective as some say.

Of course its subjective, starting with the music. I like classical, some one else likes techno, another one rock and so on, and even then there are sub categories of each type of music. There's no right or wrong here its all subjective. The same is true for equipment, a lot of it has to do with one's real life experiences or lack of which influences the final goals achievement. This is why I hate rags that pursue what they like and call it the absolute sound, then bs everyone into it when none really exist. Reality of Carnegie Hall, basement of Blue Note club in Manhattan and a Rock concert in Madison Square Garden are very different from one another and all live venues. I hate two of the three but they're all always packed with people, does it make anyone right or wrong here? IMO the mistake is calling something ABSOLUTE just because one likes it more, but crap can be universal.

david

 

[microstrip]

(...) JBL has a room with a "motorized assembly line" which easily replaces a pair of speakers with another one, making this research possible (for most of us, such a precise blind comparison of speakers is difficult).
This says that this hobby is not so subjective as some say.

Yes, but it is used mainly for their developments, not to optimize high-end. For example, in their speaker comparisons they always place both sets exactly in the same position, ignoring that different speakers can need different positioning and do not care about using typical audiophile high-end systems.

IMHO ignoring the subjective aspects does not make you objective.

 

[hifikontoen]

Hifikontoen is this the link http://www.uniquesquared.com/blog/pro-audio/jbl-hearing-the-truth-testing/

Thanks for the link, but it was another one.

 

[hifikontoen]

Yes, but it is used mainly for their developments, not to optimize high-end. For example, in their speaker comparisons they always place both sets exactly in the same position, ignoring that different speakers can need different positioning and do not care about using typical audiophile high-end systems.

I do not think that this is correct.

IMHO ignoring the subjective aspects does not make you objective.

OK, but I disagree.

 

[hifikontoen]

Of course its subjective, starting with the music.

david

Hi David. You are naturally there are subjective things like taste of music.
What I meant is that the preferrence of different audio gear (loudspeakers etc.) is not as subjective as many think.

 

[microstrip]

I do not think that this is correct. (...)

It is pretty well documented. One of the objectives of the system was eliminating loudspeaker position as a variable in listening tests.
And the opinions of the Harman speaker researchers on high-end equipment are well known. BTW, the papers and articles are freely available at the Harman site. www.harman.com