Incredible Stillpoints

[DaveyF]

That says it all. Your opinion is irrelevant to this thread incidentally named.."Incredible Stillpoints".

As usual you miss the point. The fact that there are people on this forum who are NOT Stillpoints fanboys ( like you) in your opinion disqualifies their opinion ( even IF they happen to have tried the Stillpoints and discounted them). I don't have a horse in this race...BUT you sure do..a "blinker'd" one, LOL.

 

[rockitman]

As usual you miss the point. The fact that there are people on this forum who are NOT Stillpoints fanboys ( like you) in your opinion disqualifies their opinion ( even IF they happen to have tried the Stillpoints and discounted them). I don't have a horse in this race...BUT you sure do..a "blinker'd" one, LOL.

how can you render a valid opinion without empirical experience ? If you are going to make a statement of fact regarding stillpoints, it is usually good to experience them for yourself in your system. I am not saying they work for everyone for every component, but if your system is up to the task, stillpoints can allow you to maximize the best sound from your system componentry.

 

[jap]

Vice grips

Great idea.

Chew up the threads and make them worthless.

Madfloyd, get some lock nuts the same size as the adaptors and you'll be able to back them out with a wrench.

Makes you appreciate that WA has an allen head insert on one end of their threaded inserts to assist with removal.

 

[DaveyF]

Christian,IF ( BIG IF ) you were to read my posts, you would see that not once have I ever said that Stillpoints do NOT work. Instead, I have commented on the fact that they did NOT work for a friend and also apparently for Peter A. That is VERY different statement. However, you go on to state that :" But if your system is up to the task, still points can allow you to maximize the best sound from your system componentry". That statement is at the VERY least highly encompassing --or some might say conceited...Nah
I'm done discussing this with you.

 

[rockitman]

Great idea.

Chew up the threads and make them worthless.

Madfloyd, get some lock nuts the same size as the adaptors and you'll be able to back them out with a wrench.

Makes you appreciate that WA has an allen head insert on one end of their threaded inserts to assist with removal.

who cares, they are only threaded adapters (Cheap and readily available). Sounds like he wants them off genius.

 

[rockitman]

Christian,IF ( BIG IF ) you were to read my posts, you would see that not once have I ever said that Stillpoints do NOT work. Instead, I have commented on the fact that they did NOT work for a friend and also apparently for Peter A. That is VERY different statement. However, you go on to state that :" But if your system is up to the task, still points can allow you to maximize the best sound from your system componentry". That statement is at the VERY least highly encompassing --or some might say conceited...Nah
I'm done discussing this with you.

I think it is pretty clear that Peter did not implement them correctly. As mentioned many times, they need to decouple the speaker, not the stand.

 

[jap]

who cares, they are only threaded adapters (Cheap and readily available). Sounds like he wants them off genius.

Yes, just like your genius of telling Peter to use double sided tape to make the Ultra 5s work with his Mini IIs.

 

[rockitman]

Yes, just like your genius of telling Peter to use double sided tape to make the Ultra 5s work with his Mini IIs.

Still bashful to share your system tough guy ? LOL Jap. It's past your bedtime.

 

[jap]

Still bashful to share your system tough guy ? LOL Jap. It's past your bedtime.

What does that have to do with your genius double sided tape recommendation?

PS- I just checked, it's 18 degrees in Saratoga Springs, NY, it's 64 degree here and I have to go and walk my dogs.

 

[PeterA]

Yes, just like your genius of telling Peter to use double sided tape to make the Ultra 5s work with his Mini IIs. View attachment 14294

If I had indeed followed Christian's advice about the double sided tape, and then still reported mixed results, then I guess, to remain consistent, he would have had to admit that his advice led me to "not implement them correctly." One can't have it both ways.

And yet, people have written that one should experiment with implementation. Try them right side up, upside down, try 3 units or four units, with threaded inserts, without them, in the holes for the component feet, not there but possibly many other locations, flush against the bottom, raised a credit card amount, etc. etc. The Ultra video on the Stillpoints websit shows the Ultra 5s with a proprietary base disk unit that is threaded into the flat surface of the unit and the sales rep states that it is meant for under speakers and for soft floors and this base unit adds a leveling feature not found on the Ultra 5. What confuses me though, is how can the device now be threaded into the bottom of the speaker? The threaded side is used up accepting the base unit. He refers to the "hat" as the tapered part implying that that goes up and the flat half is oriented down. However, the flat half is the one that accepts the threaded insert adaptor. Surely that must be the one oriented up toward the bottom of the component or speaker.

It is clear to me that there is no one way to try these devices. The advice seems to be to experiment, with orientation, with number of units, with positioning and with whether or not it touches the bottom of the component.

I would not have even tried these with my speakers if it had been clear that they were not designed to go with stand mounted speakers such as the Mini 2. It's been a learning experience, though.

 

[ack]

You guys still talking about the Ultra 5s???? Yawn.......... How's the weather in Chicago... watching Good Morning America.... looks very cold still... talking about a sticky situation

 

[rbbert]

...Makes you appreciate that WA has an allen head insert on one end of their threaded inserts to assist with removal.

The Stillpoints threaded inserts have an Allen head insert on one end...

 

[rbbert]

...I am not saying they work for everyone for every component, but if your system is up to the task, stillpoints can allow you to maximize the best sound from your system componentry.

A self-contradicting statement.
rockitman, you should allow for the possibility that some (maybe even many) systems won't benefit from Stillpoints, or may benefit in only small ways or very specific implementations as with almost any tweak.

 

[ack]

I feel compelled to summarize some of Gary's comments, which are really high-school physics, from here, and here

Ball in cups:

This may come as a surprise, but the highly popular captive ball in two cups device is actually viscoelastic.

In the vertical plane, the ball and cup is a very effective coupler. The small contact patches providing an almost spike-like contact area.
...
Considering the forces in the horizontal plane, as the ball rolls, there is friction between the ball and the cup. This results in a loss of energy, a generation of heat, and a viscous property. Depending on the material of the ball, and the material of the cup, you will have different coefficients of friction.
...
Hence, the ball and cup and related ball and race devices are a special class of viscoelastic coupler/decoupler, with almost perfect coupling in the vertical plane, and viscoelastic properties in the horizontal plane.

and then on viscoelastic properties on the horizontal plane:

2) When there is viscoelastic behavior horizontally, the reaction of the suspension lags the strain by up to 90 deg. Hence, the reaction is no longer clean. An impulse from the woofer may be returned by the loudspeaker cabinet suspended on the viscoelastic pucks out of absolute phase with the impulse, resulting in the impulse being smeared in time.

The effect combines the impulse signal (cone going forwards) with an attenuated, inverted signal (speaker cabinet going backwards) chaotically resulting in a muddy sound.

If you somehow are able to eliminate the viscoelastic properties in the horizontal plane of any such device (.e.g. by placing very heavy speakers, so that friction in that plane is very high), you will then reap the benefits of its vertical coupling and/or decoupling characteristics (whatever they are). Based on all this, the conclusion is:

1) If there is viscoelastic behavior in the horizontal plane, you may have audible problems
2) If there isn't, then: a) if your device is coupling to the floor, then what's the benefit of these devices? Spikes do the same; or b) if they are de-coupling, there should be some benefit. Therefore, depending on the application, some devices can work.

Gary then concludes:

I am not a fan of viscoelastic pucks because of the out-of-phase response. Elastic pucks (on the other hand), carefully applied can be extremely effective.

So are elastic devices the answer? Not necessarily. Here's Gary again, being thorough as always:

1) When the pucks behave elastically both vertically and horizontally, it is likely that they are squished so hard that they become a solid vertically – and hence become an excellent coupler. An example is a small blob of blu-tac used to secure a loudspeaker to its stand. If there is elasticity in the horizontal direction, the strain is in phase with the stress, and thus reduces cleanly nett horizontal forces. An impulse at the loudspeaker causes the loudspeaker to bounce backwards (you have to remember that the loudspeaker is many times the mass of the driver cone) but when it is elastic, the bounce is clean and you get undistorted but reduced impact.

Draw your own conclusions...

 

[rockitman]

A self-contradicting statement.
rockitman, you should allow for the possibility that some (maybe even many) systems won't benefit from Stillpoints, or may benefit in only small ways or very specific implementations as with almost any tweak.

I think most would. I left wiggle room to please the incessant skeptics...

 

[MadFloyd]

Great idea.

Chew up the threads and make them worthless.

Madfloyd, get some lock nuts the same size as the adaptors and you'll be able to back them out with a wrench.

Makes you appreciate that WA has an allen head insert on one end of their threaded inserts to assist with removal.

Thanks, this will be something to try next time. I used vice grips and chewed up the threading. Since I do plan to give the Stillpoints another go, I have ordered more adapters.

 

[MadFloyd]

The Stillpoints threaded inserts have an Allen head insert on one end...

They need them on the other end as well.

 

[rbbert]

Re: ack's too long to quote post above

I think this may be why Stillpoints can offer more than the other ball-and-cups, because there is some other form of decoupling material technology in there. I wonder if Gary could chime in on the (non-proprietary) aspects of his speaker's bases.

 

[Steve Williams]

They need them on the other end as well.

I agree Floyd. I wouldn't expect problems screwing the adapter into the Ultra 5 as the exact size is known but not so sure about exact sizes for what the other end is going into. Of my 8, I had 2 that required some muscle and finesse to get them screwed in. I commented at the time that it would be good to have the Allen head insert on the other end as well

Fortunately the adapters are inexpensive but I caution you re possible stripping of the Wilson tap site

 

[PeterA]

They need them on the other end as well.

My Magico inserts also have an Allen head on one end and function the same way. You should insert the end without the Allen head into the Wilson speaker and the end with the Allen head into the Stillpoint. That way you can always get it out of the speaker using an Allen wrench. The other end should not get stuck in the Stillpoint. If it is stuck in the speaker end, then you can always unscrew the Stillpoint using the large diameter of the disk for leverage. Then use the Allen wrench to remove the insert/adaptor from the speaker.