Incredible Stillpoints

[spiritofmusic]

Typo: ...and NOT FULLY knocked out by active isolation.

 

[ack]

I'd like to hear from Stillpoints directly that "improper implementation was executed." Would double sided tape be considered proper implementation? I have not read that anywhere. I had thought that they needed to be "a credit card distance from the bottom of the speaker." So I assumed from that that they should not be flush against the bottom of the speaker. There are also reports that speakers can be leveled by changing the height of the Stillpoint inserts? How would this work with sticky tape? I think I read that one user described how he simply put them between the floor and his speakers and he was told that he would get bad results because he was not using them properly. So I guess I would have to figure out how to lift the center of the puck away from the underside of the speaker and what to do when the tape dries out and my speakers slide off the stand in the middle of the night or during a listening session.

Absent an official word from Stillpoints, "improper implementation" is just conjecture. If they are in fact not meant to go under the Magico Mini 2 speaker stand, then that is fine. In that case, they are not designed for my specific application and I would not buy them in that instance anyway.

Also, I'm now curious why I in fact observed some positive results like "increased sense of depth and spacial information and an enhanced mid range presence that made vocals and violins sound more beautiful". If I had them improperly installed, why did I hear some positive attributes from their use? Ack and I only described what we heard in some detail, both the positive and the negative, in order to share the listening impressions with others who may appreciate a more balanced report. As LL21 wrote, "no tweak is perfect."

There are other members of this forum who have also had "mixed" results with these products and a few who sold them after having quite a few in their systems. Clearly, they work great in some contexts and less so in others.

When someone expresses "mixed results" with a cartridge, or simply that it was not right for him, do thread followers and owners of the cartridge suddenly question the guy if the VTA was proper, the VTF enough, the azimuth correct or the alignment right? Or do they just accept that that cartridge was not the right fit for that tonearm/analog front end, that system or that user?

This is a forum in which we share listening impressions and ideas about the hobby.

Peter, here's Steve's own comment on presumably properly installed Stillpoints under his speakers: In spite of all this my first impression suggested a softening to the sound. The sharpness I had in some sounds was now slightly softer, less edge if that makes sense
and subsequently: I thought the same because it is almost an oxymoron to say the deep bass and mid bass is so much clearer and cleaner but yet there is some softening of the sound.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Steve-Williams&p=250599&viewfull=1#post250599

A clear case of 'you win some you lose some' - and in Steve's case (and others?) you win the most, based on his subsequent comments - perfect. Not in your system, and your hearing and approach are just fine. Nothing else to say. Physics works as prescribed. Not a no-brainer product - not surprised others are selling them.

 

[MadFloyd]

Who'd have thought it would be tweaks like these that would bring out such strong opinions in people? I'm sure there must be a way to objectively discern one way or the other whether Peter was justified in using the 5s how he did. And hence if his experience was or wasn't to the full advantage of the 5s. This reminds me of the active isolation/Table Stable thread where posters, incl. myself got pretty heated re advantages claimed, and correct utilisation of said devices. I was one of the few who had doubts, and was impressed, but knocked out in the short trial I managed to set up.
What's interesting is that a good 90% of Stillpoints guys swear by them, but there is a significant minority like peter who find they fall flat. YMMV, I guess.
for me once i sort out power issues further (PC/IC loom, more Entreq grounding, I'm going to get back to isolation as my final series of tweaks and seriously a-b Ultra 5s v Symposium Acoustics Rollerblocks.

I've owned Rollerblocks and Rollerblock JR's for years and I try them under components periodically but have never heard any sonic differences.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Madfloyd, the Symposium Isis rack was (and so far is still) the only isolation/rack equipment that made a significant enough positive difference in my system for me to shell out on it. And I had tried Grand Prix Monaco, Naim Fraim, Mana, HRS etc w/no real joy and plenty of mixed results. I have some confidence that Rollerblocks will make further positive difference after the excellent results siting my spkrs on Rollerblocks Jrs. All in good time.

 

[rbbert]

I did have my speakers on Aurios (very similar to Rollerblocks); the Ultra SS were a noticeable step up. Given their price, I'm not really interested in trying Ultra 5 with the inconsistent results people have noted (remember I posted about one dealer who preferred the SS to the 5's under Rockport Aviors).

 

[spiritofmusic]

My current audio man just happens to be a Stillpoints dealer. I've got a great relationship w/him, having got phenomenal results with the Entreq grounding system he's introduced to me. So I'll have a great opportunity in future to assess the efficacy of SSs/Ultra5s v Rollerblocks in various a-b's. Agree re price, decking out in Ultra5s will be 3x the price of Rollerblocks, so they'll have to come up trumps to even consider them. My one experience of them, w/SSs under my Entreq grounding box was really something (esp. since the Silver Tellus is a passive box, not connected to the mains or in series w/components), but too short a time to make a final conclusion.

 

[Steve Williams]

Peter, here's Steve's own comment on presumably properly installed Stillpoints under his speakers: In spite of all this my first impression suggested a softening to the sound. The sharpness I had in some sounds was now slightly softer, less edge if that makes sense
and subsequently: I thought the same because it is almost an oxymoron to say the deep bass and mid bass is so much clearer and cleaner but yet there is some softening of the sound.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Steve-Williams&p=250599&viewfull=1#post250599

A clear case of 'you win some you lose some' - and in Steve's case (and others?) you win the most, based on his subsequent comments - perfect. Not in your system, and your hearing and approach are just fine. Nothing else to say. Physics works as prescribed. Not a no-brainer product - not surprised others are selling them.

Ahh but Peter you didn't read my next few posts which, after readjusting my upper speaker modules to account for the change in speaker height, that magic was there once again and in full force

 

[ack]

Ahh but Peter you didn't read my next few posts which, after readjusting my upper speaker modules to account for the change in speaker height, that magic was there once again and in full force

Cool; apparently, your speakers' weight keep the Stillpoints immobilized and fully energized - not in PeterA's case. All these observations are still in line with what I said earlier, that these devices need adequate weight to properly activate them, and that mobility (or sway) cannot be a good thing for speakers. Still not a no-brainer product from this vantage point.

 

[Steve Williams]

Cool; apparently, your speakers' weight keep the Stillpoints immobilized and fully energized - not in PeterA's case. All these observations are still in line with what I said earlier, that these devices need adequate weight to properly activate them, and that mobility (or sway) cannot be a good thing for speakers. Still not a no-brainer product from this vantage point.

but if they are on bearings and frictionless how can you say that adequate weight is needed to activate the device.

 

[rockitman]

but if they are on bearings and frictionless how can you say that adequate weight is needed to activate the device.

he can't. Peter's speakers are more than heavy enough to couple the device to the speaker bottom. Rack componentry is much lighter than his speakers too and these devices give significant improvement when applied under them in most cases, especially power supplies.

 

[scouter]

I think we can all agree that Stillpoints are not a panacea for great / improved sound in every situation. Right after I started this thread, I was on the horn to my Stillpoints dealer to acquire more Stillpoints for my Magico S5s. When Steven started to investigate, he came back with a surprising answer - Magico DOESN'T recommend Stillpoints under their speakers. Whether that is to point the owner to Magico's own Q-Pods, or another sonic reason, I don't know or care. In areas where they work, well worth the money. If they don't, send them back for a refund.

 

[Steve Williams]

Whether that is to point the owner to Magico's own Q-Pods

Naaah

 

[asiufy]

I don't think Magico recommends anything other than what comes with their speakers. Not even QPods.
AFAIK, the QPods are to be used for electronics, not speakers.


alexandre

 

[Steve Williams]

I don't think Magico recommends anything other than what comes with their speakers. Not even QPods.
AFAIK, the QPods are to be used for electronics, not speakers.


alexandre

I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[rockitman]

I don't think Magico recommends anything other than what comes with their speakers. Not even QPods.
AFAIK, the QPods are to be used for electronics, not speakers.


alexandre

Wilson doesn't make a statement recommending Stillpoint's either, but............
They do improve the sound of Wilson speakers, at least in my case.

 

[Steve Williams]

Wilson doesn't make a statement recommending Stillpoint's either, but............
They do improve the sound of Wilson speakers, at least in my case.

moi aussi

 

[DaveyF]

Not to slap the Stillpoints fan boys too much...BUT one of the BIG problems that I believe that we have in this hobby is people stating absolutes that aren't necessarily correct. Stillpoints most likely will and do work well with SOME gear....BUT like everything in the hobby, a universal isn't likely to be the case. As I posted earlier, the friend who owns Vandy 7's thought they were a disaster for his speakers. They clearly don't work well with Peter A's Magico's either. The fact that some of you are happy with the results with their Wilson Alex's...means that they work well with the Wilson Alex's in "certain conditions"....BUT not that they will work well with Wilson Alex's in ALL instances. The moral here would seem to be that as usual, and this applies I believe to ALL gear, one simply has to audition new gear with one's own system to be sure of improvement. That's why they say YMMV.

 

[rockitman]

Not to slap the Stillpoints fan boys too much...BUT one of the BIG problems that I believe that we have in this hobby is people stating absolutes that aren't necessarily correct. Stillpoints most likely will and do work well with SOME gear....BUT like everything in the hobby, a universal isn't likely to be the case. As I posted earlier, the friend who owns Vandy 7's thought they were a disaster for his speakers. They clearly don't work well with Peter A's Magico's either. The fact that some of you are happy with the results with their Wilson Alex's...means that they work well with the Wilson Alex's in "certain conditions"....BUT not that they will work well with Wilson Alex's in ALL instances. The moral here would seem to be that as usual, and this applies I believe to ALL gear, one simply has to audition new gear with one's own system to be sure of improvement. That's why they say YMMV.

This from someone with no actual application of stillpoint's ultra's in his system. Your conjecture is certainly entertaining with little to back it up. I have them under and on top of all components in my audio chain. It was done systematically and in every instance they improved the sound. I am sure you can find a few instances where they are not beneficial, like suspended turntables... Other than that, they are a win. Their effect is cumulative.

 

[asiufy]

Wilson doesn't make a statement recommending Stillpoint's either, but............
They do improve the sound of Wilson speakers, at least in my case.

Sorry, two different things. One manufacturer is neutral (Wilson), the other is actively against them (Magico). And, as I said, not just any particular brand of tweaks, they're against ANY tweak.
Arrogance maybe, but they trust their product.


alexandre

 

[rockitman]

Sorry, two different things. One manufacturer is neutral (Wilson), the other is actively against them (Magico). And, as I said, not just any particular brand of tweaks, they're against ANY tweak.
Arrogance maybe, but they trust their product.


alexandre

does Magico state this on their website or instruction manuals ?