The Alexia's are HERE!

[Bruce B]

From what I remember, your MM3's measured a lot more flat that this.

Really??

 

[microstrip]

Why is it that *everyone* seems to have a room dip at around 60 Hz to 65 Hz? I have now seen that same dip numerous times. Everybody has different rooms with different nodes and different speakers placed differently within the room. I'm surprised that in spite of those differences, there is some commonality with the dip centered between 60 Hz to 65 Hz in multiple rooms.

Perhaps it is a ceiling effect? If you listen at typically 10 feet, and ceiling is 8-9 feet height the difference between direct path and the ceiling reflection is around 9 feet, that will cancel 63 Hz.

 

[edorr]

Really??


View attachment 9362

My memory ain't what it used to be. I recall you went through some extensive repositioning (documented on WBF forum) and got them pretty flat, but I guess I was dead wrong.

 

[mep]

My ceiling is 9' high and I sit around 13' from my speakers.

 

[mep]

I would like to see a graph from MikeL's room with his new speakers.

 

[mep]

My memory ain't what it used to be.

I have a good memory, it's just not very long.

 

[Steve Williams]

Bruce

IME you can't eliminate a null such as this by trying to fill in with subs. It is resolved either by repositioning speakers and/or DSL but the DSpeaker only resolves peaks and only below 300 hz

 

[FrantzM]

Bruce

IME you can't eliminate a null such as this by trying to fill in with subs. It is resolved either by repositioning speakers and/or DSL but the DSpeaker only resolves peaks and only below 300 hz

Yes he can. EQ or DSP can't eliminate nulls. Positioning may help but bring other problems in other part of the spectrum and soundstaging...If used with care subs is the best solution IMO and IME. Most system can only benefit from the addition of subs, regardless of the bass capabilities of the mains
Not much time to post these days very busy ...
..Out for now ...

 

[Steve Williams]

Yes he can. EQ or DSP can't eliminate nulls. Positioning may help but bring other problems in other part of the spectrum and soundstaging...If used with care subs is the best solution IMO and IME. Most system can only benefit from the addition of subs, regardless of the bass capabilities of the mains
Not much time to post these days very busy ...
..Out for now ...

I said with 2 subs....I found this very difficult. I think more is easier

 

[Bruce B]

My memory ain't what it used to be. I recall you went through some extensive repositioning (documented on WBF forum) and got them pretty flat, but I guess I was dead wrong.

You're not totally wrong... i did get a flatter response by adding 2 subs, but I was trying to avoid that because the speakers were more adjustable.

 

[NorthStar]

Because when they were initially set up, the front of the speakers and amps were in the same plane. Now in their new position, the speakers were 2' further back. Now I have to move my amps!

No you don't; those are the musician's feet.

 

[NorthStar]

Yes he can. EQ or DSP can't eliminate nulls. Positioning may help but bring other problems in other part of the spectrum and soundstaging...If used with care subs is the best solution IMO and IME. Most system can only benefit from the addition of subs, regardless of the bass capabilities of the mains.
Not much time to post these days very busy ...
..Out for now ...

I agree.

 

[Steve Williams]

I agree.

yeh, well I thought the same and so far minor improvements regardless of positions I moved them to. I agree with you Frantz. I'm just saying that IME smoothing those nulls with 2 subs in principal is the way to go. I just think that 3 or 4 would be the best way

 

[garylkoh]

yeh, well I thought the same and so far minor improvements regardless of positions I moved them to. I agree with you Frantz. I'm just saying that IME smoothing those nulls with 2 subs in principal is the way to go. I just think that 3 or 4 would be the best way

Yes, during the New York Audio Show, I added 2 subs to smooth out the nulls in the room. But that was not for a flatter frequency response. It was to widen the sweet spot to 3 rows plus two standing rows in the very long room. Bruce has very different needs as all he needs is to have one sweet spot.

 

[mep]

Yes, during the New York Audio Show, I added 2 subs to smooth out the nulls in the room. But that was not for a flatter frequency response. It was to widen the sweet spot to 3 rows plus two standing rows in the very long room. Bruce has very different needs as all he needs is to have one sweet spot.

View attachment 9366

That picture looks like a variation on the 7 Dwarfs theme. It looks like we have Happy (couple), Grumpy, Mad, and Disinterested.

 

[MylesBAstor]

And Touraj standing at attention!

 

[microstrip]

Yes, during the New York Audio Show, I added 2 subs to smooth out the nulls in the room. But that was not for a flatter frequency response. It was to widen the sweet spot to 3 rows plus two standing rows in the very long room. Bruce has very different needs as all he needs is to have one sweet spot.

And here we enter the Toole/Harman approach - their sub positioning is just made to bring a good quality bass over all the listening space that covers a significant area in the room, as in most home theater spaces. Their positioning and optimization rules apply mainly to this case - as Gary says not the typical audiophile situation. Unhappily this last situation was not so deeply studied - as far as I remember only Earl Geddes had an public known approach for setup of multiple subwoofers for single position optimization.

 

[theguesswho]

Hi Bruce, I am still trying to wrap my head around this whole measuring thing. I visit other sites and except for the HT Shack, where REW is from, very few audiophiles measure their systems.
I have downloaded REW, but have not used it. I am able to use your m.dat on my computer, if you would be so kind to download it like you did with the MM3s measurement that would be great.

I do have one question though, I see a blue line on your graph at 83db is that the target level you are going for or are you using the standard 75db? Or do we split the difference from the highest peak to the lowest dip for the average level?

Sorry I have to ask you these questions but there seems to be few others here on WBF that is using this program.

Thanks
PHP143
Wendell

 

[Roger Dressler]

And here we enter the Toole/Harman approach - their sub positioning is just made to bring a good quality bass over all the listening space that covers a significant area in the room, as in most home theater spaces. Their positioning and optimization rules apply mainly to this case - as Gary says not the typical audiophile situation. Unhappily this last situation was not so deeply studied - as far as I remember only Earl Geddes had an public known approach for setup of multiple subwoofers for single position optimization.

While indeed the Welti/Harman approach is aimed at a larger sweet spot, it does not preclude the possibility of improvement in the sweet spot gained from modal cancellations. In fact that is exactly my experience, where with a single sub there was no way to achieve decent bass response no matter where I dragged it, but going multiple subs (and EQ) transformed it into a listenable result. The MLP in particular, but as a bonus, all the other seats sound really good, too.

 

[Bruce B]

Another review

http://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/Alexia_HiFiCritic_Jan-Mar2013.pdf