Catering to the rich not the audiophile

[opus111]

OK, maybe they are not disruptive.

I don't think disruptive is totally a black and white thing - there are shades of grey in disruptiveness (or should that be disruptivity?). They are kinda disruptive, but not totally.

But, slightly off topice, don'tyou think that if they put a half inch faceplate on their stuff they could be selling directly in the high end market right now, and at current high end prices....there specs, anyway, and looks, are pretty dang good.

No, I don't think they could because they're not playing the game. By which I mean they're cutting out the middle men and so won't be considered 'credible players'. Remember to get to true 'high end' status in the current market you'd need to get a positive review in the gatekeeper press. Stereophile for one requires that its available in a certain minimum number of dealers - how does a direct operation get to jump through that hoop?

Isn't their price, their lack of thick metal ,and perhaps then equipped thusly, a great review in TAS and , bang, off to the races and high profits. Is high end mostly now just bling.....rhetoric question methinks, atleast as far as electronics goes pretty much.

They don't actually look the part for what high end buyers want, as you've noticed. If they changed the faceplate that would make them unacceptable for the value-conscious market because it would increase the price unacceptably, so no its not just about giving it 12mm depth of machined metal as a fascia and heavy duty grab handles. The product is designed for a particular market and its suiting that market pretty well, but its not high-end.

As regards bling, yes the market is now mostly bling, but that's the dying market, not the coming market. If they addressed a dying market with a new product, that's a recipe for quick extinction. There is still a baby in there, even though at present its mainly bathwater.

 

[KBK]

direct sales means that the minimum of 5 dealers to get a review, is not a requirement. IIRC, Emotiva has more than one stereophile review? - At least the one I know of, and recent, too.

 

[opus111]

Ah OK, thanks for that clarification. Have a link to what they said in the review by any chance?

 

[FrantzM]

Hi
Very interesting discussion here. What about Emotiva in term of sound? A I knwo a few people , audiophiles who like them. Many will not miss the 12 mm Anodized Aluminium faceplates if the product sounds good. Do they?

And I will come with more questions to you people later, after the NFL game

 

[opus111]

I just went over to Emotiva's website. They do say 'Rethink High End' but the only argument that they've giving about the reason High End was expensive is that its about the inefficiencies of traditional models of dealerships and distribution. What's missing there is a story about the design aspect - what technical problems have they identified and solved that means that High End sound now truly becomes affordable? To me the distribution aspect is indeed important, but it is only half the story, and its missing a very important piece to become totally convincing as a marketing proposition.

 

[NorthStar]

Ah OK, thanks for that clarification. Have a link to what they said in the review by any chance?

Stereophile has reviewed the Emotiva XPA-5 multichannel amplifier (November 2011, by Kal Rubinson).
Also, the Emotiva ERC-2 CD player (December 2011, by Stephen Mejias).
Also, the Emotiva X-Ref XRT-5.2 loudspeaker (August 2012, by Robert J. Reina).

Other major audio reviewers/players have also reviewed other Emotiva products over the years.
...Home Theater mag, Audioholics, Home Theater, ....

_____________________

I know a lot of people using Emotiva products (some audiophiles too), and I've been following that company since the very beginning.
I even own two of their power amps myself. And I know more about Emotiva than most people. :b

 

[opus111]

Stereophile has reviewed the Emotiva XPA-5 multichannel amplifier (November 2011, by Kal Rubinson).
Also, the Emotiva ERC-2 CD player (December 2011, by Stephen Mejias).
Also, the Emotiva X-Ref XRT-5.2 loudspeaker (August 2012, by Robert J. Reina).

Do you happen to know if any Emotiva product has made the 'A' list so far?

 

[NorthStar]

Do you happen to know if any Emotiva product has made the 'A' list so far?

No, not those three products I just mentioned. The closest to class A is the Emotiva XPA-5 multichannel (5 ch.) power amp, rated Class B.

BUT! It could very well be possible that the XPA-2, or at least the XPA-1 could have made Class A.
And now with the newer XPR Series of amps, watch out!

 

[Mosin]

I spent most of my life working hard to cater to that exact crowd.

And then I build it.

You know what?

1) No. One. shows. Up.

2) People take a dump on the low price, and say it can't be any good.

3) The target market tries to screw you on THAT already sacrificial price. Trying to 'bargain you down'. Even more.

direct experience says....there's no winning with your target market. I'd directly saying that it is my direct experience of when the best in the world is put in front of people at a world beating price, that the vast majority never see it or understand it. And the rest.. they try to screw you even harder on the 'free/bargain' angle. This is not conjecture or hyperbole. It is multiple case direct experience.

I was talking with a man awhile back who caters to a specific Far Eastern clientele about selling my turntable in his market. He asked how much, and when I told him it was 36K, he said it would never sell there. I asked if that market wouldn't pay that much, and he replied that it was too little. I was amazed, but he assured me that if the price was at least 60K, he would have takers. So, the idea keeps floating around for me to make a second, more upscale, model. Market perception is a strange beast.

 

[KBK]

No, not those three products I just mentioned. The closest to class A is the Emotiva XPA-5 multichannel (5 ch.) power amp, rated Class B.

BUT! It could very well be possible that the XPA-2, or at least the XPA-1 could have made Class A.
And now with the newer XPR Series of amps, watch out!

yes, the lore and the capabilities are slowly building up and moving in to China. 5 years from now, the Audio landscape might be quite different.

IIRC, audio 'penetration' in the USA household, is on the order of, what, 0.5%-0.2% or thereabouts?

Japan, is and was running at about 10% household penetration, of 'high end audio'.

Think about it.

Asian culture and society places different values.

china, right now, is a huge untapped resource of soon to be audio fanatics. 10% penetration of the market (not 10% of the population) , could outstrip all the rest of the world's use in a matter of years. meaning it becomes a reality on the mental horizon of 10% of the Chinese population and then 1% of those...buy. That's 11 million customers. if we divide by potentials, in reality, the numbers become much lower. But the population is still so huge, that some aspects will remain. that the next wild west of high end audio is still china, by any measure, and it is in the process of happening.

 

[Mosin]

yes, the lore and the capabilities are slowly building up and moving in to China. 5 years from now, the Audio landscape might be quite different.

IIRC, audio 'penetration' in the USA household, is on the order of, what, 0.5%-0.2% or thereabouts?

Japan, is and was running at about 10% household penetration, of 'high end audio'.

Think about it.

Asian culture and society places different values.

china, right now, is a huge untapped resource of soon to be audio fanatics. 10% penetration of the market (not 10% of the population) , could outstrip all the rest of the world's use in a matter of years. meaning it becomes a reality on the mental horizon of 10% of the Chinese population and then 1% of those...buy. That's 11 million customers. if we divide by potentials, in reality, the numbers become much lower. But the population is still so huge, that some aspects will remain. that the next wild west of high end audio is still china, by any measure, and it is in the process of happening.

You are absolutely right, and the Chinese love good things audio that have a "Made in USA" nameplate! That origin is as much status for them as the equipment is performance. If you do good work, there is your essentially untapped marketplace waiting to happen. By the way, they are even pressing a few audiophile records of traditional Chinese music these days.

 

[NorthStar]

-- Chinese music's (singing) not my bag though. :b ...Chinese food, OK. :b

 

[KBK]

-- Chinese music's (singing) not my bag though. :b ...Chinese food, OK. :b

Yeah, but how about that touch of ry cooder, in this one?

 

[opus111]

BUT! It could very well be possible that the XPA-2, or at least the XPA-1 could have made Class A.
And now with the newer XPR Series of amps, watch out!

I predict it won't happen, ever. They're not playing the game you see...

 

[opus111]

Chinese food, OK. :b

Have you ever tried Chinese food in China? I thought I knew Chinese food from sampling dozens of Chinese restaurants around the world. But they're just not the same...

 

[opus111]

china, right now, is a huge untapped resource of soon to be audio fanatics.

You're right its largely untapped, but wrong that they're 'soon to be' - just check out all the cheapo valve amplifiers on Taobao:

http://s.taobao.com/search?q=Hi-Fi%...id=s5-e&search=y&initiative_id=itemz_20130106

 

[NorthStar]

I predict it won't happen, ever. They're not playing the game you see...

---- To be absolutely honest with you, I perfectly don't care. :b

 

[NorthStar]

Have you ever tried Chinese food in China? I thought I knew Chinese food from sampling dozens of Chinese restaurants around the world. But they're just not the same...

No, unfortunately I've never been to China. ...Only in Vancouver's, Victoria's, Calgary's, Quebec's, and Montreal's Chinatowns.
I've been to Memphis, New Orleans, but never in their Chinatowns. ...Same for New York, Miami, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Seattle.
Mexico, I like Mexican food.

 

[asiufy]

Emotiva used to advertise on Stereophile, right around the same time they got their reviews. Apparently you need to pay 6 months to a year of ads to get the reviews...
Don't know if they still do it, though, don't remember seeing their ads anymore.
Anyway, I've heard the Emotiva setup at RMAF, and it was, by far, the worst sound of the show. Sure it's cheap, but so is a Marantz, and I'd rather buy that.


alexandre

 

[opus111]

They don't have a design story, their sound isn't high end so they're not really going to 'rethink high end' are they? They're just another player in the value market. A truly disruptive business doesn't play by the existing rules, they re-write the rules - as Google did with Android for example in the mobile space.