...or, with all due respect, you need to consider other options
https://hbr.org/2014/02/how-to-say-this-is-crap-in-different-cultures/
https://hbr.org/2014/02/how-to-say-this-is-crap-in-different-cultures/
Your hifi is crap...
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
It was a great read. I especially loved this part:
"My British boss during a one-on-one “suggested that I think about” doing something differently. So I took his suggestion: I thought about it, and decided not to do it. Little did I know that his phrase was supposed to be interpreted as “change your behavior right away or else.” And I can tell you I was pretty surprised when my boss called me into his office to chew me out for insubordination!"
I took over managing a team in Reading England back in 1990s. Having lived in UK for a while as a youngster, I thought for sure I knew how to manage them. Wrong! I fell in the trap of thinking because they speak English that they are similar to us. Not remotely so. I adapted and did not fall victim to their previous American manager who was booted out by them!
Likewise I was taken by surprise the first time I dealt with Korean executives. Had a meeting with Samsung and everything was absolutely great. They could not be nicer than they were towards us (from Microsoft). Time is up for the meeting and I start to wrap up only to be hit with the most direct and negative comments about Microsoft history of working with them. With just four or five minutes, there was little opportunity to address them. We walk out and I pull our Korean Microsoft exec aside and ask him what that was about. He said, that is the Korean style. That they spend most of the meeting being cordial and not getting to the point. But then they all of a sudden focus on the topic. Once again, I was fooled by thinking they act like Japanese in never being direct.
Back to the article, of course these things are not bibles of correctness. I once bought a book on dealing with different cultures. Then I got to the Japanese section and while there were some elements of truth in what it was saying, it just was not right. The only way to learn that is to go Japan, have someone who has lived through figuring out how to make the inter-cultural aspects work teach you the ropes, spend time socially there, and then, maybe then, you will figure out how to deal with them. Until then, better be prepared for failure after failure.
With our forum being the most international I have seen anywhere, I think the main walk away point from the article is being mindful of that. But not in any specific way.
And it is not just variations between US and other countries. But also within US. From business relationship point of view, people in NY might as well be from a different country than those of us on the west coast
. They are far more direct than we are (I say we, even though I have lived on the east coast with a lot of people from New York). That directness is just who they are but it is very easy to mistake that for nastiness.
It is a miracle really that we have such bond and common interest to overcome all of this and have us intact in one placed and be joined at the hip that way.
"My British boss during a one-on-one “suggested that I think about” doing something differently. So I took his suggestion: I thought about it, and decided not to do it. Little did I know that his phrase was supposed to be interpreted as “change your behavior right away or else.” And I can tell you I was pretty surprised when my boss called me into his office to chew me out for insubordination!"
I took over managing a team in Reading England back in 1990s. Having lived in UK for a while as a youngster, I thought for sure I knew how to manage them. Wrong! I fell in the trap of thinking because they speak English that they are similar to us. Not remotely so. I adapted and did not fall victim to their previous American manager who was booted out by them!
Likewise I was taken by surprise the first time I dealt with Korean executives. Had a meeting with Samsung and everything was absolutely great. They could not be nicer than they were towards us (from Microsoft). Time is up for the meeting and I start to wrap up only to be hit with the most direct and negative comments about Microsoft history of working with them. With just four or five minutes, there was little opportunity to address them. We walk out and I pull our Korean Microsoft exec aside and ask him what that was about. He said, that is the Korean style. That they spend most of the meeting being cordial and not getting to the point. But then they all of a sudden focus on the topic. Once again, I was fooled by thinking they act like Japanese in never being direct.
Back to the article, of course these things are not bibles of correctness. I once bought a book on dealing with different cultures. Then I got to the Japanese section and while there were some elements of truth in what it was saying, it just was not right. The only way to learn that is to go Japan, have someone who has lived through figuring out how to make the inter-cultural aspects work teach you the ropes, spend time socially there, and then, maybe then, you will figure out how to deal with them. Until then, better be prepared for failure after failure.
With our forum being the most international I have seen anywhere, I think the main walk away point from the article is being mindful of that. But not in any specific way.
And it is not just variations between US and other countries. But also within US. From business relationship point of view, people in NY might as well be from a different country than those of us on the west coast
. They are far more direct than we are (I say we, even though I have lived on the east coast with a lot of people from New York). That directness is just who they are but it is very easy to mistake that for nastiness.It is a miracle really that we have such bond and common interest to overcome all of this and have us intact in one placed and be joined at the hip that way.
Sometimes the common bond has us joined at the hip, and sometimes it has us joined at each other's throats
Sometimes the common bond has us joined at the hip, and sometimes it has us joined at each other's throats
Hehe. Well said.
Hi
Liked very much the article thanks very much this said . I still cringe at the idea of telling a person who is beaming about his/her latest tweak/acquisition/system that it sounds (to me) like crap... I have gone to several audiophile friends systems and sometimes wonder (IME) if they have any idea what the real things sound like ... In those instances I prefer to be silent.. a little bit ... Culture? Not really Empathy? Definitely I feel for the person who has invested so much and getting (IME) so little returns. Often there ia another attendant, a blunt individual that helps a lot: they kind of open up the floodgates then I (try not to ) rush but ultimately feel obligated to not let this courageous) ) fellow to hang dry.. Then it is time for euphemisms and soft balls ...
Call me whatever you like I find it proper etiquette to not criticise if I feel the owner is not ready for it .. If they enjoy their stuff ...It is all that matter..
On this I must say that many audiophiles have absolutely no idea what good bass sounds like ... Sorry I could not resist .. You know... this article and all that
Liked very much the article thanks very much this said . I still cringe at the idea of telling a person who is beaming about his/her latest tweak/acquisition/system that it sounds (to me) like crap... I have gone to several audiophile friends systems and sometimes wonder (IME) if they have any idea what the real things sound like ... In those instances I prefer to be silent.. a little bit ... Culture? Not really Empathy? Definitely I feel for the person who has invested so much and getting (IME) so little returns. Often there ia another attendant, a blunt individual that helps a lot: they kind of open up the floodgates then I (try not to ) rush but ultimately feel obligated to not let this courageous
) ) fellow to hang dry.. Then it is time for euphemisms and soft balls ...Call me whatever you like I find it proper etiquette to not criticise if I feel the owner is not ready for it .. If they enjoy their stuff ...It is all that matter..
On this I must say that many audiophiles have absolutely no idea what good bass sounds like ... Sorry I could not resist .. You know... this article and all that
Hi
Liked very much the article thanks very much this said . I still cringe at the idea of telling a person who is beaming about his/her latest tweak/acquisition/system that it sounds (to me) like crap... I have gone to several audiophile friends systems and sometimes wonder (IME) if they have any idea what the real things sound like ... In those instances I prefer to be silent.. a little bit ... Culture? Not really Empathy? Definitely I feel for the person who has invested so much and getting (IME) so little returns. Often there ia another attendant, a blunt individual that helps a lot: they kind of open up the floodgates then I (try not to ) rush but ultimately feel obligated to not let this courageous
Call me whatever you like I find it proper etiquette to not criticise if I feel the owner is not ready for it .. If they enjoy their stuff ...It is all that matter..
On this I must say that many audiophiles have absolutely no idea what good bass sounds like ... Sorry I could not resist .. You know... this article and all that
You do realize they think the same about your system when they leave. It's universal.
I'm pretty much in agreement with this entire post as well. If the recipient is not ready for a direct (blunt) answer, proper etiquette before a desire to shoot one's mouth off is the proper thing to do.Hi
Liked very much the article thanks very much this said . I still cringe at the idea of telling a person who is beaming about his/her latest tweak/acquisition/system that it sounds (to me) like crap... I have gone to several audiophile friends systems and sometimes wonder (IME) if they have any idea what the real things sound like ... In those instances I prefer to be silent.. a little bit ... Culture? Not really Empathy? Definitely I feel for the person who has invested so much and getting (IME) so little returns. Often there ia another attendant, a blunt individual that helps a lot: they kind of open up the floodgates then I (try not to ) rush but ultimately feel obligated to not let this courageous
Call me whatever you like I find it proper etiquette to not criticise if I feel the owner is not ready for it .. If they enjoy their stuff ...It is all that matter..
On this I must say that many audiophiles have absolutely no idea what good bass sounds like ... Sorry I could not resist .. You know... this article and all that
I had my first experience with negotiating in foreign (non US) countries back in the early '90's. We were looking for a very expensive piece of equipment ( around US$2.5M) which was only made by four manufacturers in the world - one in Germany (interesting just emerging from the unification and located in the former East Germany), two in Japan and one in the US. The cheapest was the US machine, but also clearly the most technically inferior. We narrowed the choices between one Japanese company (Minolta) and the German company (Zeiss). It took us some time to figure out the very different ways the Japanese and Germans communicated. Since there was quite a bit of customization done for this equipment (a planetarium projector), we were looking to see what was possible. We liked the Japanese machine, and asked about specific capabilities. For several features we wanted, the response was never NO, but often, "It would be very difficult." We finally figured out that this meant NO. In the end we got the German machine. You can see it at the Chabot Space and Science Center in the Oakland hills (or if you are on the east coast, the Hayden Planetarium in NYC has a very similar instrument).
Larry
Larry
Hi
Liked very much the article thanks very much this said . I still cringe at the idea of telling a person who is beaming about his/her latest tweak/acquisition/system that it sounds (to me) like crap... I have gone to several audiophile friends systems and sometimes wonder (IME) if they have any idea what the real things sound like ... In those instances I prefer to be silent.. a little bit ... Culture? Not really Empathy? Definitely I feel for the person who has invested so much and getting (IME) so little returns. Often there ia another attendant, a blunt individual that helps a lot: they kind of open up the floodgates then I (try not to ) rush but ultimately feel obligated to not let this courageous
Call me whatever you like I find it proper etiquette to not criticise if I feel the owner is not ready for it .. If they enjoy their stuff ...It is all that matter..
On this I must say that many audiophiles have absolutely no idea what good bass sounds like ... Sorry I could not resist .. You know... this article and all that
I agree with you. What is the benefit of criticizing, if it doesn't personally affect you? On the other hand, I will tell an associate who has developed a product what weaknesses I may hear in that product. I always praise his successes, however. My friends respond in kind, but we are an extremely close knit group, so no offense is ever taken.
I dealt with the Japanese as partners, as a customer and a supplier for many years. In many, many meetings I cannot remember hearing a direct No as a response. As others have noted they have many euphemisms to replace it.
Very true. A shorthand for this was take a quick breath in! Huge trap for foreigners working with Japanese. I learned the technique and would practice it back on them and they would chuckle
.You want clash of titans: put Germans and Japanese in the same room! World War Three would occur when the direct and exacting Germans would tell the Japanese what was wrong with their products in front of their executive bosses! The Japanese would sit there in silence which would encourage the Germans to ratchet up the complaints even more. The Germans were right so we would sit back let them do the fighting for us while we came out as the favorites.
as GM of a busy car dealership in a very diverse area with many recent immigrant tech workers as customers, as well a similarly diverse employee group, I appreciate what is going on here. and since it's a Honda Dealership, the whole aspect of the Japanese culture comes into play dealing with the factory over many years. and then there is my Phd in Physics son-in-law who runs a team of research and new product developers owned by a Japanese conglomerate who travels both to Japan twice a year and Europe twice a year and the stories he tells of how he has come to understand how to interpret communications.
and, of course, my son-in-law is from Philly......which is a whole different issue.
and, of course, my son-in-law is from Philly......which is a whole different issue.
Part of the reason that Rossi went back to yamaha was that the Ducati guys didnt really listen to his comments about the bike , so improvement was very difficult .
As far as managers , just kick out 3/4 of them , over the last deacade there seems to be an explosion of managers around , most of them dont like the hands on work but like meeting and discussing about problems , a lot are clueless any way in my field of work .A owner of a pretty large company told me once , having to do a lot of meetings is merely a defect in a an organisation/business
As far as managers , just kick out 3/4 of them , over the last deacade there seems to be an explosion of managers around , most of them dont like the hands on work but like meeting and discussing about problems , a lot are clueless any way in my field of work .A owner of a pretty large company told me once , having to do a lot of meetings is merely a defect in a an organisation/business
...and, of course, my son-in-law is from Philly......which is a whole different issue.
I can assure you that we who are of Irish descent are not to be confused with those panty-waisted Brits!
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