What went wrong? - Awful Avalon coverage

[andromedaaudio]

Jeff
I know of the measurements carried out by soundstage magazine , and i find a lot of reviews in there very helpfull , i do not say its not a good magazine in my opinion .
Its one of the reasons that got me interested in convergent amplifiers by the way.

I forgot to mention dealers , i dont have very high opinion of most of them either , at least here in holland .
They think they know it all because they can connect an expensive amp to an expensive speaker and feel they belong to a certain elite
hahahaha

 

[MylesBAstor]

I believe Jeff's response was to the quoted sentence that says that Soundstage's reviews are simply based on the reviewers opinions. He stated that we are the only ones that perform anechoic measurements in an actual anechoic chamber. Not sure why he included the other statement, he can speak to that, but drawing the conclusion that Doug ripped the speaker because Avalon withdrew their speaker because of the NRC measurement is direspectful to Doug and to Soundstage.

You know what Randall? If I've learned anything in my 25 or so years of reviewing, it's that one has to always be very careful in their choice of words. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it (I'm not talking about reviews). And, one has to always be careful where one is saying anything, whether it be at a show, in print or on line

 

[Randall Smith]

You know guys, reviewers are damned if they do and damned if they don't. You guys want honesty from the audio press, but you dismiss it when you get it. Lets be honest, who has the ax to grind here?

I know Doug to be one of the most knowledgable reviewers in the audio press. Not only is he a great listener, but he is also well versed in speaker design and technology. He is also a straight-shooter who calls it like he sees it. If there was one persons opinion that I value over all other, it would be his. He isn't affiliated with any speaker company. He believes in properly designed speakers that sound great. He also appreciates speakers that can accomplish those goals and do so at a reasonable price. If he finds one of those speakers, he will reward it with a positive review. Isn't that what you guys want? Someone to look out for you? I just cannot stand by and watch someone question Doug's integrity. The guy doesn't have Doug's experience and probably is no where near qualified to do so.

If Doug was a free-lance reviewer I'd have less of an issue, but he isn't. He's the publisher and founder of Soundstage, and as such this was a major faux-pas IMO.

 

[Randall Smith]

Same guy wrote this about a speaker he saw this year, is this a major faux-pas too?

http://soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211&catid=83&Itemid=246

 

[Jeff Fritz]

You know what Randall? If I've learned anything in my 25 or so years of reviewing, it's that one has to always be very careful in their choice of words. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it (I'm not talking about reviews). And, one has to always be careful where one is saying anything, whether it be at a show, in print or on line

You know what, Myles? It is applied to reviews (especially), and it is applied to show reports, and forum posts, and on and on. And it is one of the main reasons the press have so little credibility these days. We've made our beds because of not telling it like it is.

Here is Doug's "Total Joke: Perfect8's Pricing": http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211&catid=83&Itemid=246

He's never been turned down for a review by Perfect8, either.

I have no issue nor do I regret mentioning the Avalon "non-review." Why? Because it's 100% true. You can call me a liar, or see some hidden agenda, or even call the company and get their side of it.

The reason Doug wrote what he wrote was because he walked into the room and he was completely underwhelmed by the speaker. Beleive it or not . . .

 

[ack]

I hope we stop here... As I mentioned before, I have heard unacceptable Avalons in the past (yes, at the dealer, properly set up) driven by top electronics, so it's possible there is some truth to Randall's claim - and yes, I've heard some truly remarkable ones too, small (Mini Monitors) to large (the Osiris). If nothing else, let me just point out that the same dealer gave up Avalons after decades of partnership for reasons directly associated with performance... Unfortunately, some lines will be controversial, and this is going to be one of them...

 

[Randall Smith]

John should apologize for his comments and Myles should apologize to Jeff for assuming the worst of a colleague and choosing not to stand up for him.

 

[MylesBAstor]

You know what, Myles? It is applied to reviews (especially), and it is applied to show reports, and forum posts, and on and on. And it is one of the main reasons the press have so little credibility these days. We've made our beds because of not telling it like it is.

Here is Doug's "Total Joke: Perfect8's Pricing": http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211&catid=83&Itemid=246

He's never been turned down for a review by Perfect8, either.

I have no issue nor do I regret mentioning the Avalon "non-review." Why? Because it's 100% true. You can call me a liar, or see some hidden agenda, or even call the company and get their side of it.

The reason Doug wrote what he wrote was because he walked into the room and he was completely underwhelmed by the speaker. Beleive it or not . . .

Yes Jeff and the old adage what goes around, comes around applies equally Also, I'd like to see where I didn't call it as it was in a review. Do you think Fremer and Atkinson don't call it as it is? What about HP then for that matter? There used to be those who believed that TAS jumped the shark when HP and other readers stopped trashing equipment in the magazine. I'd hate to think that's what readers want. Is that what you're looking for?

And when it comes to CES, do you really think that exhibitors are displaying for the press (you should hear the feedback I hear on that subject)? Most exhitors are just there to meet dealers and distributors.

Plus, do you really think that it's fair to judge the sound of any system in these rooms? Hardly. If it sounds good it's an accident. We can start with the AC --and no PLC built or known to mankind can help a loaded down hotel AC supply. Would you put a limiter on your system? Hell no. But many of the exhibitors chose to use them as prescribed by the hotel and their sound suffered. And do you think that putting a 100K speaker in one of these rooms is fair evaluation of its sound? I don't care how much room Rx you use, it won't overcome crappy room construction, not to mention these tiny rooms. Now that's telling the truth.

 

[MylesBAstor]

John should apologize for his comments and Myles should apologize to Jeff for assuming the worst of a colleague and choosing not to stand up for him.

Boy do you have a lot to learn.

 

[marty]

For what its worth, I was not impressed with the PerfectEight speaker at all. Most notable to me was its deficiency in the upper bass/lower midrange. This shouldn't be surprising considering its architecture. I would not be surprised to see significant attenuation centered at 150Hz due to floor cancellation effects which are often prominent with dual bass drivers situated 18-20" off the floor. Orchestral pieces had no weight whatsoever, although one might be fooled into thinking there was something there because the subwoofers provided adequate low bass. But brass instruments, and human voice? Fuggetaboutit. This was another example of the high end at its worst- some speaker manufacturers would rather die by the sword by demoing without EQ than provide a little EQ which would have helped the speaker dramatically.

 

[flez007]

Guys, as originator of this thread I will kindly ask all to stop it there...it was not the intention of this post to loose the track as it is right now. Please...let's move on....

 

[mep]

+1

 

[JackD201]

Looks like I missed the party

 

[amirm]

Indeed. Let's discuss technology than people and motives.

 

[vassago]

Hello

I just think he dont like them,, there are not the sound like a real avalon,, is you here the Indra and the Transcendent, the dont have the same bass corntrol and the are to light in the sound,,, I think I only have sold 3 pair off them and have sold a lot off Indra and the price is the problem,, the best speaker from avalon is Indra Isis ED, the only problem is the Isis is big and have to be in a big room, and when you give them some gas,, you can hear the midranges get problems, it is to small.