What is the best speaker you have ever owned ?????

[rbbert]

I think you need the massive voltages that tubes supply so easily. There is no easily available efficiency specification for that situation.

 

[mep]

I think you need the massive voltages that tubes supply so easily. There is no easily available efficiency specification for that situation.

The problem is that when you are dealing with someone who has all the answers and their mind is as tightly closed as the jaws on a hungry pit bull on a meaty bone, trying to pry that mind open and instill some new knowledge becomes very difficult.

 

[rbbert]

Probably like ozarktom, I well remember the many owners of Acoustats with MK121 transformers eagerly searching out ServoCharge amps once they heard how their speakers could really sound. I haven't heard RAM's amps but I have no reason to doubt they sound better than the old ServoCharge amps ever did. The problem is finding panels in good shape and then a cabinetmaker who can do justice to the whole project (unless you can find something like a Spectra 6600 or 8800 in good shape; even then you might well want the cabinets rebuilt) and by then we're talking about a major expense.

 

[mep]

ozarktom was trying to impart his knowledge based on years of experience to someone whose mind is made up. Oh well.

 

[MrAcoustat]

The problem is that when you are dealing with someone who has all the answers and their mind is as tightly closed as the jaws on a hungry pit bull on a meaty bone, trying to pry that mind open and instill some new knowledge becomes very difficult.

Dear sir until you hear these Acoutat's i think that it is your jaw that should stay shut because you have no idea of what you are talking about these DIY Spectra 8800s have played music at volumes that 100k and 200k speakers CAN NOT HANDLE.

PS: 20 years + of rebuilding Acoustat's and still learning.

 

[ozarktom]

Yes, if a person is that stubborn, just time to move on. But life is short, you need to experience it all.

Here is another choice besides RAM for the servo amps. Now where were these guys 20 years ago?

http://www.tubeaudiostore.com/eslelodidram.html

 

[mep]

Dear sir until you hear these Acoutat's i think that it is your jaw that should stay shut because you have no idea of what you are talking about these DIY Spectra 8800s have played music at volumes that 100k and 200k speakers CAN NOT HANDLE.

If I was in love with a certain speaker company and their products to the point that my online name was basically my favorite speaker company's name and someone who was one of their largest retailers for years and who had heard something revolutionary with said speakers that greatly improved their performance was trying to tell me about how I could take my speakers to another level of sound quality, I think my ears just might perk up. As for your Spectra 8800s playing "music at volumes that 100K and 200K speakers CAN NOT HANDLE," I don't find that impressive in and of itself. A pair of Klipsch Heresy speakers could probably pull that off too. I don't think we were talking about maximum SPLs but rather the quality of the sound that is coming out at all levels.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Just to play devil's advocate, the Acoustat 1+1s were the first estat that I ever heard and it was love at first listen. But I always felt that they and the other Acoustats were always hindered by the amplifiers of the time. Neither tube (ARC-probably the best I heard them sound, EAR) nor solid-state(Hafler--or their own Acoustat amplifier that was the worst match of all) could really do them justice. And of course the beaming and upper octaves.

Personally I'd love to hear the modded Acoustats with analog of course.

 

[ozarktom]

Just to play devil's advocate, the Acoustat 1+1s were the first estat that I ever heard and it was love at first listen. But I always felt that they and the other Acoustats were always hindered by the amplifiers of the time. Neither tube (ARC-probably the best I heard them sound, EAR) nor solid-state(Hafler--or their own Acoustat amplifier that was the worst match of all) could really do them justice. And of course the beaming and upper octaves.

Personally I'd love to hear the modded Acoustats with analog of course.

As a dealer then, the best sound from Acoustats with the MK121 transformers was the NYAL OTL amps. About the second best were the NYAL Moscode amps. With any tube amp wIth transformers, the sound was slow and very veiled. But when you hooked up the OTL servo amps and eliminating the MK121 transformers, several layers of haziness disappeared and dynamics increased greatly.

 

[MylesBAstor]

As a dealer then, the best sound from Acoustats with the MK121 transformers was the NYAL OTL amps. About the second best were the NYAL Moscode amps. With any tube amp wIth transformers, the sound was slow and very veiled. But when you hooked up the OTL servo amps and eliminating the MK121 transformers, several layers of haziness disappeared and dynamics increased greatly.

Interesting. But then as I understand, the reliability of the Acoustat servo amps was less than stellar. My friend had a pair of rebuilt NYAL OTL on his Crosby Quads and they were quite good, when they worked. Which wasn't often enough sad to say. The EAR 509 didn't sound veiled; to the contrary the issue was the bass was way to big, bloated and boomy and the top end was rather soft. The best sound I heard was with either the ARC D90 or D110 back then.

I could never understand though why the Acoustat amps sounded so bad with their own speakers. Surely it should have been a match made in heaven (and that was at the time with an ARC SP10 and Linn/Itok/Koetsu Rosewood cartridge). It just was absolutely washed out, thin and electronic sounding.

 

[rbbert]

Are you talking about the ServoCharge amps or the Acoustat TNT amp into the Mk121 interface? When done right (i.e., aftermarket mods) the S-C amps usually sounded great, although they were never designed to work with the later Spectra models which did start to address some of the beaming probllems of the earlier models. That's why I was hypothesizing above about what could be done to optimize performance today, but it seems few of the remaining Acoustat enthusiasts are very interested...

 

[ozarktom]

Interesting. But then as I understand, the reliability of the Acoustat servo amps was less than stellar. My friend had a pair of rebuilt NYAL OTL on his Crosby Quads and they were quite good, when they worked. Which wasn't often enough sad to say. The EAR 509 didn't sound veiled; to the contrary the issue was the bass was way to big, bloated and boomy and the top end was rather soft. The best sound I heard was with either the ARC D90 or D110 back then.

I could never understand though why the Acoustat amps sounded so bad with their own speakers. Surely it should have been a match made in heaven (and that was at the time with an ARC SP10 and Linn/Itok/Koetsu Rosewood cartridge). It just was absolutely washed out, thin and electronic sounding.

I sold quite a few Acoustat amps back then and they all sounded quite good. Maybe you had a defective one. They sounded bright on normal speakers, but sounded smooth with the MK121 Acoustats.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I sold quite a few Acoustat amps back then and they all sounded quite good. Maybe you had a defective one. They sounded bright on normal speakers, but sounded smooth with the MK121 Acoustats.

Oh, OK just so you realize I'm talking about their TNT solid-state not tube amplifiers. The TNT-200 just sounded bad on all speakers, in particular Maggies and the Acoustats. The TNT-200 was thin, electronic, anemic and just lacked information. The piece of junk Hafler 500 sounded better on the 1+1s Don't know if it was good or bad. All I know is that it worked and came from a local dealer.

 

[MrAcoustat]

Just to play devil's advocate, the Acoustat 1+1s were the first estat that I ever heard and it was love at first listen. But I always felt that they and the other Acoustats were always hindered by the amplifiers of the time. Neither tube (ARC-probably the best I heard them sound, EAR) nor solid-state(Hafler--or their own Acoustat amplifier that was the worst match of all) could really do them justice. And of course the beaming and upper octaves.

Personally I'd love to hear the modded Acoustats with analog of course.

Sir i respect your opinion on analog all i want is the same respect on my preference for good solid state amplifiers for Acoustat's tube amps for ME just don't cut it, i have tried three or four times but always came back to solid state.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Sir i respect your opinion on analog all i want is the same respect on my preference for good solid state amplifiers for Acoustat's tube amps for ME just don't cut it, i have tried three or four times but always came back to solid state.

Did I criticize your choice of amp Andre? No. I simply related my experience. Don't be so sensitive.

 

[DaveyF]

I tried all kinds of amps on my Acoustat 3's with the Mk121 transformers. From the Melos tube amps to the large Threshold ss amps...none were that great. IMHO, Acoustat's, like many panel speakers cannot truly reproduce dynamics...See my thread on Dynamics...http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?13787-Dynamics!!!

 

[MrAcoustat]

Did I criticize your choice of amp Andre? No. I simply related my experience. Don't be so sensitive.

Sorry Myles my post was not ment for you.

 

[ozarktom]

Sorry Myles my post was not ment for you.

If you meant me Mr. Acoustat, I agree 100% with you. It takes a solid state amp to make the Acoustats with transformers listenable. Any conventional tube amp and the Acoustats will fall way too flat. When you have transformers driving transformers, the sound is very syrupy with bloated bass. Detail is not there. But the DD tube amps are not conventional. It is sad you have had 20 years with Acoustats and never had the opportunity to hear them at their best with a DD amp. SS cannot drive the speakers direct, just not enough voltage.

I will repeat, it is a night and day difference, not subtle. Just ask Roger Modjeski. He would never recommend his conventional tube amps to drive Acoutats with the transformers. He will never steer you wrong.

 

[ozarktom]

I tried all kinds of amps on my Acoustat 3's with the Mk121 transformers. From the Melos tube amps to the large Threshold ss amps...none were that great. IMHO, Acoustat's, like many panel speakers cannot truly reproduce dynamics...See my thread on Dynamics...http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?13787-Dynamics!!!

And I agree with you. The Acoustats could not produce great dynamics with the transformers, but with DD servo amps, It changes the whole ball game. Even driving the Acoustat 3's you get fantastic dynamics.

 

[ozarktom]

Oh, OK just so you realize I'm talking about their TNT solid-state not tube amplifiers. The TNT-200 just sounded bad on all speakers, in particular Maggies and the Acoustats. The TNT-200 was thin, electronic, anemic and just lacked information. The piece of junk Hafler 500 sounded better on the 1+1s Don't know if it was good or bad. All I know is that it worked and came from a local dealer.

Thinking back, the TNT 200 and 120 Transnova amps were designed around the 3's and 4's. When Acoustat introduced the 1+1's, these amps sounded too thin. I never liked the 1+1's actually because of this. I also sold Hafler and the 500 amp was much more warmer and listenable with the 1+1'S. Between the 120 and 200 TNT's, the 120 sounded the best. I never hooked the DD servo amps up to the !+!'s because I never was a fan of them. I probably should have.