What are the best tweaks in your experience?

[GertSterlingSilver]

we all need these as tools I’ve done this for years but mostly get shouted at

Insertion depth(if applicable) headband tension(again, if applicable), fore-aft position and getting the best fit regardless.
I often think my headphones are messed up, just takes 1/4th of an inch to make 'em sound right again.

 

[Elliot G.]

I completely agree that proper setting up of speakers is of paramount importance. Who did you get to set up your speakers? Unfotunately I know of no one in the UK capable of this job. The US has Jim Smith of course.

Stirling does travel all over the world BTW. He's a tough man to book and is very busy. I know that he has worked in the UK and I even know the client, of course their may be many but I did meet this gentleman last year in Munich and had dinner with him.

on another subject not related to Here here comments
I am always amazed in audio those who are anti knowledge and learning based on information that they themselves have determined to be accurate even though they themselves don't have significant expertise. Art is not something one can certify, except for verifying the person who created it . I personally will stake my reputation, as a tradesman with no knowledge lol, that both Mr. Smith and Mr. Trayle will leave their respective clients homes with better sound . I have visited and listened too many systems to count or even remember however the few and by few I mean very few excellent ones I can remember them all. BTW I learned something by experiencing each one of them.
One needs to learn what they don't know in every subject and whether you are driving, cooking, painting, writing, golfing, or just being a blow hard on the internet that YOU don't it all. When you proclaim your god like statues with arrogance you become obvious in your being an _______. Left blank to choose your own word on purpose.
I stayed in a holiday inn express last night so I should be able to remove brain tumors, cure cancer, drive at Indy, win the Masters, prevent world hunger and end the war in Ukraine and in my spare time win a Grammie and of course have the worlds best audio system.
One would think that people would join a Forum to further their knowledge and enhance their journey but the internet seems to have driven the whole thing way off course and into a huge pissing contest full of the mad as hell and not going to take it anymore( NETWORK reference) Youtubers and those posters who still believe the earth is flat.
I feel sorry for those who can't seem to get over themselves and perhaps learn something that might make their life, hobby and system more enjoyable. I enjoy talking to and learning from many of the highly knowledgeable members of the audio world. Many have taught and helped me on my journey but I guess me not telling them that they were full of crap and insulting them with out cause helped that growth.

 

[Kingrex]

I was in a room either Stirling or Jim set up. Nothing more special in gear than any other nice system. Excellent performance. Widest, tallest and deepest soundstage I have heard.

 

[Kingrex]

If you accept that noise/distortion of different types masques the musical signal then you have to "tweak" to address power purity, mechanical vibration, and room acoustical anomalies. In my system: Pendulum based (Wellflloat platform) and air suspension (Townshend Seismic Sink) isolation paired with resonance dissipation/tuning feet (ASI Top Line and Dalby Lignum Vitae) have made dramatic improvements in sound quality. Note that the Dalby footers are the best sounding I've ever encountered at any price. Customized Marigo Mystery Feet work well on my amp which has integral spiked legs. Isoacoustics Gaia footers in place of spikes on my speaker outriggers also made a clear improvement. Stumbling on/testing/replacing some (resource limitations) of my absorbers and bass traps with the unique DHDI ZR Acoustics panels also made a dramatic improvement - probably the biggest of any tweak I've tried. Strategic deployment of the tiny ASI "Sugar Cubes" helps fine tune room acoustics. A range of power purifying and noise reduction tweaks - dedicated line and breaker box, Bybee Stealth power conditioner, grounding boxes, Lessloss Firewall 640X, Puron, Nordost, and Furutech plug-ins, Quantum Resonance Noise Disruptors, Shakti ("Air") Stones, Bybee IQSE's and Quantum Clarifiers, etc. have together effectively banished AC and signal noise. Inexpensive grounding devices and cables (Puritan Groundmaster City with Russ Andrews cables for chassis and signal grounding) have provided enough of a benefit that I haven't yet been tempted to add more expensive grounding boxes. Not sure speaker positioning should be considered a "tweak" but I did experiment with and adjust speaker position over many months until I reached a point where further adjustment netted no gains. While optimal use of the ZR Acoustics panels requires the speakers to be very close to them (within inches), there was still considerable experimentation required with distance from side walls and toe-in. It was also a subtle improvement to change the speaker rake angle (tilted up at the front by 1/2"). Happy to share specifics on any of these if you are interested.

Good list of accessories you have applied. What ground box have you tried. I feel that is a next piece for me. Along with doing something about a resonant breakup in my tonearm and footfalls skipping my records.

 

[Serenade]

I live in a very highly urbanised Asia hot country where homes are very small and high-rise. RF is 100%, big elevator motors, multiple fridges, fluorescent lamps and air-con compressors all within a few metres of my hi-fi equipment. The mains and air are highly polluted while the small rooms are cramped. It is a challenge to put the speakers and racks optimally. Everything is compromised. This is where the tweaks come in to compensate for RF, odd-shaped rooms, odd-placements, work desks sharing same space etc. Playing vinyl in a high RF environment is a challenge in itself as the cables pick up airborne stray low level signals, and the phono amplifies it 1000 times.

My personal list of tweaks that work in my compromised state are : Schumann frequency generator, grounding enhancements, Finite Element rack, Mana stand, Cerabases, Harmonix room tunes, Harmonix footers, cable lifters. Racks, footers and lifters serve a dual purpose. First to improve the sound via vibration management, secondly to make it easier to clean dust weekly from around the gear and cables. Hi fi gear are dust magnets!

 

[Cellcbern]

Good list of accessories you have applied. What ground box have you tried. I feel that is a next piece for me. Along with doing something about a resonant breakup in my tonearm and footfalls skipping my records.

I have only tried the inexpensive Puritan Groundmaster City grounding devices - one for signal grounding amp and player, and one for chassis grounding power conditioner and power supply. This was just to experiment with grounding devices but their noise reduction/sound quality improvement was significant enough that I haven't yet tried any of the higher end devices (e.g., Entreq, Telos, CAD, etc.).

 

[Hear Here]

I often wonder why some enthusiastic "treakers" can find huge sums to spend on plinths, racks, cables, mains purifiers, even fuses and other overpriced gizmos to supplement relatively basic equipment. Why don't they spend all the cash they can find to buy these things on better kit in the first place?

 

[Elliot G.]

I was in a room either Stirling or Jim set up. Nothing more special in gear than any other nice system. Excellent performance. Widest, tallest and deepest soundstage I have heard.

I was thinking last night that perhaps there are those here that don't quite understand what speaker set up means.
If you have never tried moving your speakers in your room you should try that. A few inches can dramatically change what you hear. Try pulling them away from the wall, pulling them further apart, canting them in or straightening them out. What an experienced person can do is find the proper placement for your speakers in your room. They ar e not going to tell you how to listen nor what you should like but rather where you speakers couple in your environment. It is at this point that you can actually hear and listen to what the speakers( and the system) are actually doing. Yes they can preform a few tricks to make them sound more to your liking if wanted but the owner will understand the baseline of sound in his or her space. It is from there that one can choose to change things or tweek things and actually know what these changes sound like.

If you never have moved your speakers you should try it! You may not know what's happening and where to go but you will hear differences. If you don't know how to get there that is where someone with experience can assist.

 

[Lagonda]

I was thinking last night that perhaps there are those here that don't quite understand what speaker set up means.
If you have never tried moving your speakers in your room you should try that. A few inches can dramatically change what you hear. Try pulling them away from the wall, pulling them further apart, canting them in or straightening them out. What an experienced person can do is find the proper placement for your speakers in your room. They ar e not going to tell you how to listen nor what you should like but rather where you speakers couple in your environment. It is at this point that you can actually hear and listen to what the speakers( and the system) are actually doing. Yes they can preform a few tricks to make them sound more to your liking if wanted but the owner will understand the baseline of sound in his or her space. It is from there that one can choose to change things or tweek things and actually know what these changes sound like.

If you never have moved your speakers you should try it! You may not know what's happening and where to go but you will hear differences. If you don't know how to get there that is where someone with experience can assist.

Jim Smith's book," Get better sound" is a good way to get started, his speaker set-up guide is very comprehensive ! Can you go beyond a set-up gurus advice or practical application ? Definitely ! Once you start changing room dimensions/treatments and flooring you will be able to integrate speakers at a level a quick visit will never do, but that takes time and a lot of experimentation.

 

[Kingrex]

I often wonder who some enthusiastic "treakers" can find huge sums to spend on plinths, racks, cables, mains purifiers, even fuses and other overpriced gizmos to supplement relatively basic equipment. Why don't they spend all the cash they can find to buy these things on better kit in the first place?

Because of the bleed. $10k today does not feel the same as 10K over 4 years.
And, you have not at all changes the need to fine tune (tweak). So now you spent all your money up front and have gear that is not tuned and sounds no better than well tuned less expensive geat.

I have heard it said quite often and would not argue against the point that people are on an upgrade wagon burning through equipment buying more and more expensive gear they don't need because they never spent the time to tune what they have.

 

[Cellcbern]

Because of the bleed. $10k today does not feel the same as 10K over 4 years.
And, you have not at all changes the need to fine tune (tweak). So now you spent all your money up front and have gear that is not tuned and sounds no better than well tuned less expensive geat.

I have heard it said quite often and would not argue against the point that people are on an upgrade wagon burning through equipment buying more and more expensive gear they don't need because they never spent the time to tune what they have.

Power purity, mechanical vibration, and room acoustical issues degrade/distort the signal regardless of the cost/quality of your gear. Back when I had "budget" gear and little disposable income I made do with cheaper tweaks but the pursuit was the same as now.

 

[Cellcbern]

I was thinking last night that perhaps there are those here that don't quite understand what speaker set up means.
If you have never tried moving your speakers in your room you should try that. A few inches can dramatically change what you hear. Try pulling them away from the wall, pulling them further apart, canting them in or straightening them out. What an experienced person can do is find the proper placement for your speakers in your room. They ar e not going to tell you how to listen nor what you should like but rather where you speakers couple in your environment. It is at this point that you can actually hear and listen to what the speakers( and the system) are actually doing. Yes they can preform a few tricks to make them sound more to your liking if wanted but the owner will understand the baseline of sound in his or her space. It is from there that one can choose to change things or tweek things and actually know what these changes sound like.

If you never have moved your speakers you should try it! You may not know what's happening and where to go but you will hear differences. If you don't know how to get there that is where someone with experience can assist.

I understand your audio dealer's perspective. But you can do the same for yourself - at some point you will become an "experienced person". It has also been my experience that speaker designs vary in their sensitivity to placement. Some respond to minute changes while others are relatively indifferent.

 

[Cellcbern]

I often wonder who some enthusiastic "treakers" can find huge sums to spend on plinths, racks, cables, mains purifiers, even fuses and other overpriced gizmos to supplement relatively basic equipment. Why don't they spend all the cash they can find to buy these things on better kit in the first place?

In my 4+ decades of experience as an audiophile I have found that a well tweaked high value system can outperform one with "better kit" absent any tweaks. Addressing power purity, mechanical vibration mitigation, and room acoustics allows you to hear what your system is doing as opposed to what the room is doing - regardless of the cost/quality of your components. Addressing these three issues insures that as you move to better components the improvements they bring will not be masked by noise.

 

[Hear Here]

I feel that many audiophiles are looking at their system in much the same way we regarded the inexpensive used cars we bought in our youth. We spent hours under the bonnet tuning, changing carburettors, radial tyres in place of cross ply, alloy wheels, go-faster stripes, through-exhausts, etc, etc. Now we've grown up we choose the car that suits us within our much more generous budget and that's it. No tuning, no faffing about thinking we can improve on what the engineers and designers at BMW or whoever has spent thousands of hours optimising. If we want more performance, we go for a higher-powered model. If we think we want something better after a few years, we simply upgrade to a different car.

Frankly I now consider hi-fi in much the same way, although 40 years ago I was a bit of a tweaker. Now I do the absolute minimum - basically connecting up with good (though not crazy costly) interconnect (I only use one digital IC anyway), a pair of good speaker cables (currently Duelund 12 gauge), but I have switched from spikes to isolating feet as this makes a clearly audible difference with my floors. Other than that, I doubt a tweaker would get my simple system sounding much better. That is apart from Jim Smith who would I'm sure work wonders by optimal setting up - but probably not changing or adding to my kit.

 

[Carlos269]

where you speakers couple in your environment. It is at this point that you can actually hear and listen to what the speakers( and the system) are actually doing.

The speakers will ”couple” to the room no matter what, wherever they are located in the room; what your inferring is that the expert professional set-up person will find the “optimal” position for the speakers to get the most performance or sound quality out of them. To this line of thinking I ask how does the expert professional set-up person know that, or when, they have achieved the “optimal” position for the speakers? If it is a trial and error exercise then it can’t be claimed without having tried all possible permutations. To accurately arrive at the “optimal” location (s) is a rigorous mathematical exercise, which would require multi-Physics finite-element-analysis simulation with a tool such as COMSOL. But to do it by ear and with basic measurements it is just a quick stab in the dark.

Is the resultant positioning the most optimal position from a symmetry or aesthetics point of view? Or an absolute optimal position from a sound/performance point of view?

Hopefully you get the picture that I’m painting; and that is that it is nothing more than one individual’s assessment, perception, and arrangement, that is all it is. Unless they are able to certify it with proof beyond that ”it sounds good or best” in the specified position, locations, and arrangement then the end user is left to trust with blind faith. And blind faith is never a good thing for a paid service.

For all we know a more knowledgeable individual could come along and “further optimize” the speakers positions based on more basic sound and acoustics fundamentals. Not all audiophiles are gullible, some demand proof that they are getting what they paid for.

Lastly, I find your use of the word “couple” to the room interesting as most audiophiles want to “decouple” the speakers or sound from the room, when they ”engineer“ or acoustically treat their rooms. I’m not saying that you are wrong; unless you are listening in a perfect anechoic chamber there is simply no choice in this matter; and even then it becames semantics.

 

[Hear Here]

The speakers will ”couple” to the room no matter what, wherever they are located in the room; what your inferring is that the expert professional set-up person will find the “optimal” position for the speakers to get the most performance or sound quality out of them. To this line of thinking I ask how does the expert professional set-up person know that, or when, they have achieved the “optimal” position for the speakers? If it is a trial and error exercise then it can’t be claimed without having tried all possible permutations. To accurately arrive at the “optimal” location (s) is a rigorous mathematical exercise, which would require multi-Physics finite-element-analysis simulation with a tool such as COMSOL. But to do it by ear and with basic measurements it is just a quick stab in the dark.

Is the resultant positioning the most optimal position from a symmetry or aesthetics point of view? Or an absolute optimal position from a sound/performance point of view?

Hopefully you get the picture that I’m painting; and that is that it is nothing more than one individual’s assessment, perception, and arrangement, that is all it is. Unless they are able to certify it with proof beyond that ”it sounds good or best” in the specified position, locations, and arrangement then the end user is left to trust with blind faith. And blind faith is never a good thing for a paid service.

For all we know a more knowledgeable individual could come along and “further optimize” the speakers positions based on more basic sound and acoustics fundamentals. Not all audiophiles are gullible, some demand proof that they are getting what they paid for.

Lastly, I find your use of the word “couple” to the room interesting as most audiophiles want to “decouple” the speakers or sound from the room, when they ”engineer“ or acoustically treat their rooms. I’m not saying that you are wrong; unless you are listening in a perfect anechoic chamber there is simply no choice in this matter; and even then it becames semantics.

It's patently obvious that you've not ever taken advantage of the skills and expertise of a first-class setter-upper!

You may like to plough through this post from another forum where Jim's work in getting a major US dealer's own personal system working at best performance is described - perhaps in rather too much detail!

https://www.audioshark.org/general-...ssion-jim-smith-8606.html?highlight=jim+smith

 

[Carlos269]

It's patently obvious that you've not ever taken advantage of the skills and expertise of a first-class setter-upper!

You may like to plough through this post from another forum where Jim's work in getting a major US dealer's own personal system working at best performance is described - perhaps in rather too much detail!

https://www.audioshark.org/general-...ssion-jim-smith-8606.html?highlight=jim+smith

You are correct. Never found a need or desire to have someone else come over to set up my speakers for me. I feel that I’m qualified to set up my own speakers.

Now I have close to 40 pairs of speakers, of all types, shapes, sizes and varieties of design & technologies that I rotate through in my various stereo arrangements throughout the house. None of the set-ups are long standing, except for my big system centered around the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush speakers, extended at the bottom by a pair of Wilson Audio WAMM VII subwoofers and at the top by a pair of Acapella Audio ION TW-1S plasma super-tweeters, which are powered by 10 Monoblocks, I do not move this system around too much. The other set-ups I put up and position the speakers and subwoofers within minutes using the method described earlier; and no I don’t claim the speakers are set up in their “optimal” position but my “assessment, perception, and arrangement” is all I need and require.

The gist of my exchange with Elliot which you did not take in is that this is a hobby without absolutes and one man’s assessment, perception, and arrangement is no more definitive than any one else’s best dialed-in position.

My academic and professional fields of knowledge allow me to make educated choices, which are working well for me.

 

[Daverich4]

But to do it by ear and with basic measurements it is just a quick stab in the dark.

Is the resultant positioning the most optimal position from a symmetry or aesthetics point of view? Or an absolute optimal position from a sound/performance point of view?

Hopefully you get the picture that I’m painting; and that is that it is nothing more than one individual’s assessment, perception, and arrangement, that is all it is.

My experience with having my speakers set up has been nothing like you describe. When I bought my Wilson Sophia ll’s in San Francisco the placement options were limited as they were in a small, San Francisco sized family room. But when I moved to North Carolina I bought Wilson Sasha ll’s for a dedicated listening room where they could be anywhere that I thought sounded best. The setup person from the Wilson dealer taught me some things to listen for. He’d move the speaker forward a little and I could hear the bass snap in. Forward a little more and the bass softened. There was a spot where it sounded best. Together we made the soundstage wider and narrower, focused the imaging and softened it. Distance from the front wall, distance between them, toeing in and out. Everything made a difference. Your posts make it sound like you think the setup “Expert” comes in and does their thing in a vacuum. Not in my case. I’d been placing my own speakers for more than 35 years before this and had no idea how little I knew about how to do it properly. Glad I had help this time around.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I think "good" and "right" surely have a "for me" aspect to the concepts. When I had my (Magico) speakers set up professionally, I felt I owed it to the people to respect their experience and subsequent placement position. After all, that's what I paid them for.

I gave it a week. But I just couldn't stand it. I had an audio pal of 40+ shared years of listening come over, and together, we listened and moved things around to get what I/we felt was optimum.

It sounds excellent to me, which was my primary mission, after all. I suppose the stories out there are as various as the people and systems themselves. C'est la vie.

 

[Carlos269]

My experience with having my speakers set up has been nothing like you describe. When I bought my Wilson Sophia ll’s in San Francisco the placement options were limited as they were in a small, San Francisco sized family room. But when I moved to North Carolina I bought Wilson Sasha ll’s for a dedicated listening room where they could be anywhere that I thought sounded best. The setup person from the Wilson dealer taught me some things to listen for. He’d move the speaker forward a little and I could hear the bass snap in. Forward a little more and the bass softened. There was a spot where it sounded best. Together we made the soundstage wider and narrower, focused the imaging and softened it. Distance from the front wall, distance between them, toeing in and out. Everything made a difference. Your posts make it sound like you think the setup “Expert” comes in and does their thing in a vacuum. Not in my case. I’d been placing my own speakers for more than 35 years before this and had no idea how little I knew about how to do it properly. Glad I had help this time around.

You are correct, some people do require assistance. Glad that you learned and acquired the basic tools and knowledge that allow you to now do the speaker set-up and placement on your own. We are all different, some of us don’t have a clue while others have a good understanding Of the subject matter. No harm, no foul, we are all at a different point in the learning curve, and we are all continuously learning as we go through our experiences with this hobby. We learn both from our experiences and from our mistakes.