What are microdynamics?

[mep]

If I can read between the lines here, I think what Tim is driving at and trying to set people up for is he is looking to see if there is consensus that a source with greater dynamic range must therefore have better micro-dynamics than another source with lesser dynamic range. And I’m entitled to read between the lines on Tim’s thread because he constantly does it to me and comes to all types of conclusions that were never part of the intent of my threads.

So, what Tim is really saying here if he can get people to agree with his reasoning is that digital should always have much better micro-dynamics than analog and he would dearly love to crush any future arguments about people’s perceptions of the micro-dynamics available with analog.

Now here is where we get into slightly dangerous thinking. Just because RB digital has a dynamic range capability of 96dB damn sure doesn’t mean that all digital you listen to uses anywhere near that amount of dynamic range. It just ain’t so Joe. I’m afraid that some people see that RB CD has a spec of 96dB of dynamic range and assume that is what they are hearing with every recording and poor old analog is left in the noisy weeds. I don’t know what the average RB dynamic range is, but I can tell you it’s not close to 96dB. With today’s loudness wars, you are probably lucky to see 30dB of dynamic range on a non-audiophile CD recording. In some cases, it might be half of that or less. In fact, I think we have all seen waveforms of digital that were so compressed they essentially had no dynamic range.

The great irony of course is that comparatively speaking, LP lovers are being catered to and we are the beneficiaries of better mastering that hasn’t been compressed to death and therefore the average remastered LP has more dynamic range encoded in the grooves than lots of digital. I think the primary exception to this would be digital classical recordings.

So, let’s return now to Tim’s attempt here to try and hopefully ‘prove’ once and for all that digital will always have better micro-dynamics than analog could ever dream of.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

This is because early synths were not touch/velocity sensitive. They gave you one amplitude and until MIDI came along players were using volume pedals and pitch wheels to make the effect.

And they've gotten so good for so little. One of the guys I play music with has a Roland - I don't think it was very expensive - with a wonderfully sensitive keyboard. With the right touch it can imitate the slow attack, and long vibrato. of a cello. With a different attack it can blast out like a chorus of trumpets. And none of that is it's forte. Its Hammond B-3 sample is to die for. All in a little thing no heavier or bulkier than one of my electric guitars.

Tim

 

[RogerD]

What I was talking about when I said "inferior" is some opinons I've read in which folks have compared media/components/systems and stated that the one with the lower S/N ratio actually had the superior "microdynamics." I didn't know how that could be possible. Now, having read through this 4 pages of responses, I find it more questionable than ever. In fact, it appears that when people are refering to "microdynamics" they're either talking about dynamic range, and simply focusing on the quiet stuff, or they're talking about detail, which is, of course effected by S/N ratio but...well, I'm not sure at this point that "microdynamis" is a discreet performance parameter at all...YMMV.

Tim

clarity,speed and dynamics.....now taken in a live setting a drum whack can startle much as a gunshot,but how about the Jazz pianist who raps on the lid of his grand...each has it's own dynamics and both fit into the mosiac of the music. Now both in the perfected reproduction should be convincing. The rapping of the "lid" could get lost in the translation, much less identified for what it is. Tim it is is a complex puzzle bordering on the arcane.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

clarity,speed and dynamics.....now taken in a live setting a drum whack can startle much as a gunshot,but how about the Jazz pianist who raps on the lid of his grand...each has it's own dynamics and both fit into the mosiac of the music. Now both in the perfected reproduction should be convincing. The rapping of the "lid" could get lost in the translation, much less identified for what it is. Tim it is is a complex puzzle bordering on the arcane.

Maybe complex and simple at once. I think maybe there are just dynamics, from the very small variations to the cannon blasted out of utter silence. Not sure I personally see anything to be gained in dividing them up into layers of micro and macro, but YMMV. This exploration hasn't been definitive anyway. Thanks to all who participated.

Tim

 

[RogerD]

Maybe complex and simple at once. I think maybe there are just dynamics, from the very small variations to the cannon blasted out of utter silence. Not sure I personally see anything to be gained in dividing them up into layers of micro and macro, but YMMV. This exploration hasn't been definitive anyway. Thanks to all who participated.

Tim

Let me put it this way. what part of the dynamic spectrum is more convincing with your headphones and why?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Let me put it this way. what part of the dynamic spectrum is more convincing with your headphones and why?

That completely depends on the music you're listening to and what you're trying to be convinced of. I have some music with big peaks that is very impressive on my Senns. I don't get the body feel of deep bass, of course, but still...great impact, great display of dynamics. Quieter music? Different response.

Tim

 

[RogerD]

That completely depends on the music you're listening to and what you're trying to be convinced of. I have some music with big peaks that is very impressive on my Senns. I don't get the body feel of deep bass, of course, but still...great impact, great display of dynamics. Quieter music? Different response.

Tim

Is it live or is it memorex!

 

[Soundproof]

And they've gotten so good for so little. One of the guys I play music with has a Roland - I don't think it was very expensive - with a wonderfully sensitive keyboard. With the right touch it can imitate the slow attack, and long vibrato. of a cello. With a different attack it can blast out like a chorus of trumpets. And none of that is it's forte. Its Hammond B-3 sample is to die for. All in a little thing no heavier or bulkier than one of my electric guitars.

Tim

Is it a sampled instrument, or generated tone? Does it project unequally in space according to the frequency played? Is there wood tone? Wood reverberation from resonant energy dissipating? Fret touch? Bow sound? A change in the perceived direction of the main projection because the musician turned the instrument? Or pushed the neck forward or back? Is the sampling microphone close-in or capturing how the instrument engages the room (or is that up to artificial reverb added later).

For a hybrid analog/digital case in point to study. Let's say you are used to flat unprojected recordings of violins, that you have never really heard what a real violin does, because of the recording or the system used to listen.
Then you hear Shlomo Mintz going through 24 Capricci by Paganini.
As he starts demonstrating what a violin can do, will you as a listener understand that it's not 1-2-3-5 violinists playing, side by side, but just one violinist, standing centered, projecting to create the impression of five violinists when he reaches midwork?
And is the system capable of creating the necessary projections, while keeping it authentic? It's a violin masterclass containing innumerable nuances, through a resolving set-up.

Hybrid - digital recording, but available on vinyl. It was the capabilities of digital that made the recording possible.

 

[RogerD]

That completely depends on the music you're listening to and what you're trying to be convinced of. I have some music with big peaks that is very impressive on my Senns. I don't get the body feel of deep bass, of course, but still...great impact, great display of dynamics. Quieter music? Different response.

Tim

Ok with the quieter music what is your response?

 

[NorthStar]

Yeah, like real smooth Jazz for example. Piano, trumpet, sax, drums, ...

 

[MylesBAstor]

Want to hear the difference between box and electrostatic speakers? Listen for micro dynamics.

 

[NorthStar]

But boxes, they come in all shapes and sizes ... Same with statics ...

 

[fas42]

What I was talking about when I said "inferior" is some opinons I've read in which folks have compared media/components/systems and stated that the one with the lower S/N ratio actually had the superior "microdynamics." I didn't know how that could be possible. Now, having read through this 4 pages of responses, I find it more questionable than ever

A highly simplistic technical explanation is that the power amps in such systems use a pure class A mode of operation, meaning no crossover distortion artifacts, which reduce the clarity of those "microdynamics". But being class A they are limited in maximum power, because otherwise power dissipation while idling is excessive. Class AB on the other hand, has no trouble producing volume peaks, excellent S/N, but the crossover problem rears its ugly head: unless well engineered they may struggle to resolve the low level detail correctly.

Frank

 

[NorthStar]

Tubes? Are they good at microdynamics?

 

[RogerD]

Tim,

Your being a musician isn't it possible to answer your'e question easier? I bet there are many times a band member said forte,forte or the opposite because of the overall composition of expression.

 

[NorthStar]

Are there various levels of image intensities on silence?

 

[RogerD]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music))

 

[fas42]

Want to hear the difference between box and electrostatic speakers? Listen for micro dynamics.

My suspicion is that this is largely about warmup times: a dynamic driver with a relatively stiff suspension when cold, compared to panels, will appear to suffer in comparison on first hearing ...

Frank

 

[MylesBAstor]

My suspicion is that this is largely about warmup times: a dynamic driver with a relatively stiff suspension when cold, compared to panels, will appear to suffer in comparison on first hearing ...

Frank

Sorry no Frank.

 

[garylkoh]

Personally, I don't see microdynamics (in my own definition see post #2) as a tube/SS/analog/digital thing. I don't think that it's S/N dependent either. I've heard microdynamics from a hissy tube amp, and a dead-quiet SS amp. With the material I have, I think that 24bit digital has a better chance of displaying microdynamics than 16bit digital, but that's in material I have. I find vinyl conveys microdynamics better (comparing the same mastering) than CD. Microdynamics is my entire rationale for hunting down vinyl first pressings. And when I copy those vinyl to digital (24/96) I get microdynamics too......

IMHO.