Ultimate Cat Stevens

[Bruce B]

All the master tapes I've heard need something, even if its just a gain adjustment.

Last year at RMAF I played 4 files from several master tapes. The first file was a straight 1:1 transfer. The second file was adding gain and the 3rd file was adding EQ. The 4th file was using ambience recovery and other tools in my arsenal. Not a single person liked the first 2 files.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

All the master tapes I've heard need something, even if its just a gain adjustment.

Last year at RMAF I played 4 files from several master tapes. The first file was a straight 1:1 transfer. The second file was adding gain and the 3rd file was adding EQ. The 4th file was using ambience recovery and other tools in my arsenal. Not a single person liked the first 2 files.

That is but one example Bruce, and surely you wouldn't be implying this to be the outcome of every orginal tape being remastered.

 

[Bruce B]

That is but one example Bruce, and surely you wouldn't be implying this to be the outcome of every orginal tape being remastered.

Yes I am implying that there has never been an original master tape that has just had a 1:1 transfer with nothing added or subtracted. Hence the term "re-master".

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I guess if it was really that good it wouldn't need a re-master? Or is it just a matter of differeing opinions of the original mastering engineer vs. the engineer hired to do the re-mastering?

Tim

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Yes I am implying that there has never been an original master tape that has just had a 1:1 transfer with nothing added or subtracted. Hence the term "re-master".

You misread me Bruce. I asked about the outcome of your test holding true for every source tape. I know what re-mastering means ( thanks), but I also fail to see why every engineer feels that they should imprint their own values on it.

 

[Bruce B]

I also fail to see why every engineer feels that they should imprint their own values on it.

That's the ultimate question. The role of the mastering engineer is to please the client. If we don't, we don't eat and support a family. This is a service based industry. No master gets released without Label, A&R or band approval. Believe me, there would be a lot better sounding masters if I had free reign. The biggest complaint I get from my customers is it's not loud enough and you know when you make it louder, you decrease the dynamics.
The role also of a mastering engineer is spit and polish, not make it something totally different, unless the client wants it. I do feel that my little "test" can be used as an example. Otherwise, there would never be any Remasters!

 

[jadis]

A very good friend and one of the biggest fans of Cat Stevens and his album TFTT (he told me to find a UK pink pressing) told me that TFTT was 'finished' inside Mike Kay's Lyric Hi-Fi NY store. Incredulous, I looked it up and indeed, in an interview with Steve Guttenberg of Stereophile, here's what Mike said:

Guttenberg: You look like a man who enjoys his work.

Kay: Yes, Steve. Cat Stevens finished two records, Catch Bull at Four and Tea for the Tillerman, right here in this room.

Guttenberg: I heard about that. He used your Magnepans to monitor his mixes?

Kay: Yes, that man kept me here all night, and then he would go to the studio the next day. He'd come back again a few days later; he would sometimes stay till 6am, and I'd have to kick him out so I could get a few hours' sleep. I've also developed friendships with Isaac Stern and many others. It was rewarding to see my work being appreciated. It bothers me that the new generation doesn't seem interested in quality. Today the in thing is surround.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/where-rubber-meets-road-michael-kay-lyric-hi-fi-video

 

[garylkoh]

So, with 5 different versions of Tea for the Tillerman at the show, only Rich, our vinyl reviewer, and his wife sat through a comparison. He picked the UHQR, the Pink label 1st pressing and the QRP to listen to. I have my own impressions for all 5 pressings - hopefully Rich will settle down from his travel back to Canada, and post his (and his wife's) impressions. He came in on Sunday morning, so I have no excuses for my system not sounding good

 

[jadis]

We eagerly await the report.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'm going to try and hunt down a copy of the A&M Audiophile pressing as I hear they were very well done. My local dealer is in England for the next 2 weeks trying to score some orginal UK pressings of various artisists, so I'll check with him later.

 

[vinylphilemag]

I did indeed listen to three different versions of Tea for the Tillerman's opening track, Where Do the Children Play. I asked Gary to not tell me in what order he played the records, to eliminate any bias.

The first version sounded quite thin and lacked body. The second had more warmth, detail, and was more involving. The final version was more sterile than the second but perhaps more detailed. I'm pleased to say that I correctly Identified the order as being UHQR -> original pink label (Australian) -> QRP; alas, I didn't win a prize.

I still think the QRP version is pretty good, but I'm now happy to acknowledge that an original pressing will be better, provided one can find one in suitably good condition. I have no idea how much a mint Island pink label first pressing of Tea for the Tillerman would be, but I imaging it'd be a bit more than the $50 the QRP version will set you back!

 

[MylesBAstor]

I did indeed listen to three different versions of Tea for the Tillerman's opening track, Where Do the Children Play. I asked Gary to not tell me in what order he played the records, to eliminate any bias.

The first version sounded quite thin and lacked body. The second had more warmth, detail, and was more involving. The final version was more sterile than the second but perhaps more detailed. I'm pleased to say that I correctly Identified the order as being UHQR -> original pink label (Australian) -> QRP; alas, I didn't win a prize.

I still think the QRP version is pretty good, but I'm now happy to acknowledge that an original pressing will be better, provided one can find one in suitably good condition. I have no idea how much a mint Island pink label first pressing of Tea for the Tillerman would be, but I imaging it'd be a bit more than the $50 the QRP version will set you back!

200 to 300 smackers.

Original first pressing of DSOTM on EMI even more

 

[fas42]

The first version sounded quite thin and lacked body. The second had more warmth, detail, and was more involving. The final version was more sterile than the second but perhaps more detailed. I'm pleased to say that I correctly Identified the order as being UHQR -> original pink label (Australian) -> QRP; alas, I didn't win a prize.

Pleased to see this, matches my memories of what it was like ...

Frank

 

[jadis]

I did indeed listen to three different versions of Tea for the Tillerman's opening track, Where Do the Children Play. I asked Gary to not tell me in what order he played the records, to eliminate any bias.

The first version sounded quite thin and lacked body. The second had more warmth, detail, and was more involving. The final version was more sterile than the second but perhaps more detailed. I'm pleased to say that I correctly Identified the order as being UHQR -> original pink label (Australian) -> QRP; alas, I didn't win a prize.

I still think the QRP version is pretty good, but I'm now happy to acknowledge that an original pressing will be better, provided one can find one in suitably good condition. I have no idea how much a mint Island pink label first pressing of Tea for the Tillerman would be, but I imaging it'd be a bit more than the $50 the QRP version will set you back!

Thanks for posting your findings, Rich. And that's the hard part, to find a pink original in good playing condition. And now, I'm beginning to think that the US A&M first pressing should be as good as the UK pink considering that it was already documented that Cat would check the final mix of this himself in those days, inside Lyric's store in NY. Unfortunately, I cannot find my US copy anymore.

 

[garylkoh]

Thanks for posting your findings, Rich. And that's the hard part, to find a pink original in good playing condition. And now, I'm beginning to think that the US A&M first pressing should be as good as the UK pink considering that it was already documented that Cat would check the final mix of this himself in those days, inside Lyric's store in NY. Unfortunately, I cannot find my US copy anymore.

After Rich correctly identified the three pressings (I thought that playing all five for him might have been too stressful), I did play the MoFi reissue for him. Strangely, even though the UHQR and the "ordinary" reissue was done at the same time, I thought that the ordinary MoFi to be better than the UHQR. The UHQR was thinner, but seemed to have detail stretched out at the expense of "body".

Jenny commented after the first three that she thought the QRP was boring - and that mirrored my own feeling. The QRP while it had detail and resolution was not involving at all, and I didn't feel any of Cat's emotion in any of the tracks.

So, my ranking from top to bottom: original Pink, A&M first pressing, MoFi, QRP, UHQR.

Incidentally, my Pink Label was an Australian pressing, not a UK pressing. Singapore does not have a pressing plant, and most my early LP's are all Australian pressings. I was told then that for first issues, the UK would send a stamper or two to Australia to make pressings for the Asian market. Japan had its own pressing plant, and even those stampers came from the UK. I have no way to verify if this is in fact true, or was just a story from the salesman.

 

[jadis]

Jenny commented after the first three that she thought the QRP was boring - and that mirrored my own feeling. The QRP while it had detail and resolution was not involving at all, and I didn't feel any of Cat's emotion in any of the tracks.

So, my ranking from top to bottom: original Pink, A&M first pressing, MoFi, QRP, UHQR.

Thanks for adding more insights on this quite popular thread, for a old LP.

Emotion. That's the key word. However detailed and crystal clear or crisp the instruments are in a recording, the final arbiter for me is always the emotion, the feeling one gets during and after the song rendition. Also, I noticed that in my pink pressing, where it bested the QRP would be the rock solid stability of the instruments, particularly the drum and the bass, they're 'rooted' on the ground whereas the QRP presentation would have them 'floating' and sounding lightweight.

 

[fas42]

Just to revive things here, lo and behold, when I went for a quick listen at the friend's place today, what had he newly acquired? Yep, one of them Aussie pink labels, for $5 at some nothing second hand shop. He said, this is very noisy, looked good in the shop but obviously had not had the gentlest of treatments. Put it on, yes, pops and crackles burst out thick and fast, but then came the sound and it took me back 35 years: big, rich, soothing sound and the noise became irrelevant. Tremendous texture to the bass, better by miles than all those years ago, and the guitar and vocal tone was spot on.

It was a good example of a playback that in one sense was terribly flawed, by the addition of all the splattery noise, yet one could hear past all that and register and appreciate clearly the intrinsic quality of the recording and performance.

Frank

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Just to revive things here, lo and behold, when I went for a quick listen at the friend's place today, what had he newly acquired? Yep, one of them Aussie pink labels, for $5 at some nothing second hand shop. He said, this is very noisy, looked good in the shop but obviously had not had the gentlest of treatments. Put it on, yes, pops and crackles burst out thick and fast, but then came the sound and it took me back 35 years: big, rich, soothing sound and the noise became irrelevant. Tremendous texture to the bass, better by miles than all those years ago, and the guitar and vocal tone was spot on.

It was a good example of a playback that in one sense was terribly flawed, by the addition of all the splattery noise, yet one could hear past all that and register and appreciate clearly the intrinsic quality of the recording and performance.

Frank

My orginal brown label A&M has admittedly seen better days, but it still trumps the QPR, and for similar reasons that you expressed. Now I just came across a UK Pink Island label pressing from Discogs that is NM, and I can't wait for its arrival.

 

[garylkoh]

Here's another original UK Pink Island Label:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_4660wt_1185

 

[jadis]

Here's another original UK Pink Island Label:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_4660wt_1185

Doing $400 with still a day to go. So many re-issues did not make the price cheaper.