Tweaking spend

[Jinjuku]

Has anyone considered (if they can) taking the 14/2 or 14/3 romex and running it into a straight up terminated IEC plug and totally getting rid of the socket? (there will most likely be a seemingly sensible reply that I would like to make a 2nd point with....)

 

[GaryProtein]

Has anyone considered (if they can) taking the 14/2 or 14/3 romex and running it into a straight up terminated IEC plug and totally getting rid of the socket? (there will most likely be a seemingly sensible reply that I would like to make a 2nd point with....)

In the past, I have suggested hard wiring/soldering the components directly to the AC lines and eliminating the power cords and damn fuses in the components. Use 12 or 10 gauge.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Here are my tweaks so far... some work unbelievably well and drastically improve the sound and some im not sure

Complete room rebuild and extensive treatment...all the bells and whistles .. incredible value for money

4 sub setup for distributed bass ..works real well

5kva pure sine wave inverter fed of battery banks for my power..not sure if it does make a major difference ..installed it more for the poor power and rolling blackouts common in my area ..solar charged and 6 x 200ah batts

digital room correction..amazing....

odd and sods of cables .. nothing expensive .. home made silver ribbon speaker cables (munsdorf) Some work , some dont for me

An excellent listening chair .. Nefil ergonomic , adjustable any way.. works brilliantly and very comfortable

isolation tables and footers... I make them so it's an in house thing..worked on my TT but im not so sure on my SS stuff.. but they cost me nothing

I also sweep my room at high volume with the CARA test cd to identify and cure any rattles and buzzes.. at least once a month..amazing how eliminating them "cleans" up the music

I import marble blocks from china for my company and use them as mass dampers on stuff that buzzes or could buzz

Stuff unused cavities , cupboards and drawers with acoustic fibre

Try use balanced where possible

I think thats it

 

[Folsom]

Has anyone considered (if they can) taking the 14/2 or 14/3 romex and running it into a straight up terminated IEC plug and totally getting rid of the socket? (there will most likely be a seemingly sensible reply that I would like to make a 2nd point with....)

That's not a good idea if you can have a powercord with any sort of cross-sectional area between the wires. The powercord is your chance to attenuate some of the noise the parallel ran wires collected on their way to your stereo.

 

[stehno]

Has anyone considered (if they can) taking the 14/2 or 14/3 romex and running it into a straight up terminated IEC plug and totally getting rid of the socket? (there will most likely be a seemingly sensible reply that I would like to make a 2nd point with....)

I did this in 2001 - 2002 time frame where my dedicated 10GA lines were all custom solid core 99.9% OFC straight to the service panel. At that time and on a far less resolving system, I do not recall hearing any distinct audible differences.

But it's a moot point to some degree since discovering shortly thereafter that it's paramount having superior line conditioning somewhere between the service panel and the components. A superior line conditioner's performance should far surpass eliminating a few extra connectors.

 

[Folsom]

I did this in 2001 - 2002 time frame where my dedicated lines were all custom solid core 99.9% OFC straight to the service panel. At that time and on a far less resolving system, I do not recall hearing any distinct audible differences.

But it's a moot point to some degree since discovering shortly thereafter that it's paramount having superior line conditioning somewhere between the service panel and the components. A superior line conditioner's performance should far surpass eliminating a few extra connectors.

Certainly.

I've been wanting to do twisted romex in a home for awhile, but I haven't had the chance. The results might be something very notable.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Has anyone considered (if they can) taking the 14/2 or 14/3 romex and running it into a straight up terminated IEC plug and totally getting rid of the socket? (there will most likely be a seemingly sensible reply that I would like to make a 2nd point with....)

Certainly, that can be done, but I believe it violates most any electrical code. And, most in-house circuits as wired by electricians do not have sufficient cable slack behind the outlet to be able to do this by pulling enough wire out of the wall to terminate and plug into your system. You likely would have have to rewire the circuit.

The question is do we actually believe that eliminating and bypassing the wall outlet and plug will achieve audio nirvana? Actually, will it bring about any audible differences whatsoever under controlled listening? I guess if you are tired of actually listening to music for enjoyment, you can instead engage in these time-consuming tweaking efforts and do some careful A-B listening comparisons to the different setups. And, gosh, it unfortunately eliminates our ability to listen to audiophile power cords and the all the "benefits" they provide.

No question that proper wiring is a good thing, including proper electrical grounding. But, that is not hard, and electricians, if they are competent, will understand what you are trying to do. Why is it that hospitals, research labs or even videophiles do not seem to be similarly obsessed, even in cases where it might make a life or death difference? Yes, care must be exercised to wire things properly for the application, and there are standard procedures for handling critical situations. But, why is audio deemed special requiring new, groundbreaking (pun) attempts in service of better sound?

Count me out. I think it is yet another audiophile wild goose chase, in this case a rather mindless one. There, I have said it. It is just another case of a misdirected attempt to "fix" the underlying, constant audiophile dissatisfaction with the basics of reproduced sound as it exists today. I think, no, I know, the real problems underlying that are elsewhere in the recording and reproduction chain, and almost invariably not in your wall outlet, your plugs and your power cables.

 

[stehno]

You purport to be an engineer can you suggest some mechanism why a socket would change the sound?
Keith.

I don't purport to be an engineer but I play one on high-end audio websites.

A socket (outlet) can alter the sound based on:

1. The intensity of the grasp of the prongs much like a loosely screwed in lightbulb flickering (distortion) verses a lightbulb screwed in taut. Well-designed aftermarket outlets will grasp the plug's prongs more tightly than say a standard wall outlet. Even a $3.00 20 amp wall outlets generally provides a tighter grasp of the plug's prongs over the $2.50 14amp outlets found at the hardware store.

2. Often times an aftermarket outlet will use a superior conductive material silver or copper that replaces the old less conductive brass?

3. If the new outlet is cryogenically treated, even using the more popular but inferior vapor method, will certain improve the sonics over the replaced version if it was not cryo'ed.

Add those up and and combined can generate a very distinct audible improvement. But until the outlet is fully burned in (about 60 hours of use) the new outlet most likely will sound little or no better than the old one.

Some may speculate a few more minor potential gains, perhaps even including the material of the new outlet's associated cover plate.

 

[stehno]

The question is do we actually believe that eliminating and bypassing the wall outlet and plug will achieve audio nirvana? Actually, will it bring about any audible differences whatsoever under controlled listening? I guess if you are tired of actually listening to music for enjoyment, you can instead engage in these time-consuming tweaking efforts and do some careful A-B listening comparisons to the different setups. And, gosh, it unfortunately eliminates our ability to listen to audiophile power cords and the all the "benefits" they provide.

The answer is no. Bypassing the wall outlet / plug will by no means achieve audio nirvana. But those of us who realize that just like any other performance-oriented industry, "we" can always apply the strategy of less equals more, the answer is still no but we're inching our way closer toward sonic nirvana.

No question that proper wiring is a good thing, including proper electrical grounding. But, that is not hard, and electricians, if they are competent, will understand what you are trying to do. Why is it that hospitals, research labs or even videophiles do not seem to be similarly obsessed, even in cases where it might make a life or death difference? Yes, care must be exercised to wire things properly for the application, and there are standard procedures for handling critical situations. But, why is audio deemed special requiring new, groundbreaking (pun) attempts in service of better sound?

Hospital and research lab staff, videophiles, etc. are generally not similarly obsessed because those human beings for the most part have mindsets quite similar to many who call themselves audiophiles. They, like many here, remain complacent perhaps because of untrained ears, lack of energy, or perhaps convinced themselves nothing really matters except to purchase off-the-shelf components and voila!!! Instant sonic nirvana and instant audiophiledom.

Count me out. I think it is yet another audiophile wild goose chase, in this case a rather mindless one. There, I have said it. It is just another case of a misdirected attempt to "fix" the underlying, constant audiophile dissatisfaction with the basics of reproduced sound as it exists today. I think, no, I know, the real problems underlying that are elsewhere in the recording and reproduction chain, and almost invariably not in your wall outlet, your plugs and your power cables.

You've already counted yourself out by your own words and your playback system's level of musicality most likely reflects your performance mindset. It's too bad you don't understand that everything is built with one or more compromises. Hence, the problem really is just about everything including outlets and plugs. IOW, everything can stand to be improved.

It all boils down to universally improved efficiencies and lowered resistance.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

The answer is no. Bypassing the wall outlet / plug will by no means achieve audio nirvana. But those of us who realize that just like any other performance-oriented industry, "we" can always apply the strategy of less equals more, the answer is still no but we're inching our way closer toward sonic nirvana.


Hospital and research lab staff, videophiles, etc. are generally not similarly obsessed because those human beings for the most part have mindsets quite similar to many who call themselves audiophiles. They, like many here, remain complacent perhaps because of untrained ears, lack of energy, or perhaps convinced themselves nothing really matters except to purchase off-the-shelf components and voila!!! Instant sonic nirvana and instant audiophiledom.



You've already counted yourself out by your own words and your playback system's level of musicality most likely reflects your performance mindset. It's too bad you don't understand that everything is built with one or more compromises. Hence, the problem really is just about everything including outlets and plugs. IOW, everything can stand to be improved.

It all boils down to universally improved efficiencies and lowered resistance.

I get it! It is mindsets and my crappy system that are preventing poor me from appreciating the wonders of wall outlets and power cords. Just like it is mindsets that prevent mega $million research labs from appreciating and benefitting from what audiophiles already know to be true about their electrical wiring. You are indeed fortunate in not being limited or obsessed by your own mindset, as apparently so many others are.

Also, I had no idea whatsoever that life involves compromises. Thanks for pointing that out. Gosh, I thought everything could be assumed to be perfect. Live and learn, I guess.

So, while I never thought nothing matters, but that only some things did, audibly, this is a huge revelation now that absolutely everything matters, audibly! I guess I should start trashing my old system and seeking something new until I, too, can start hearing the differences you can hear between power cords, outlets and other tweaks. That is a much better measure of system quality, a better use of time and resources than just idly sitting around and listening to the music for enjoyment.

Excellent points!

 

[stehno]

I get it! It is mindsets and my crappy system that are preventing poor me from appreciating the wonders of wall outlets and power cords. Just like it is mindsets that prevent mega $million research labs from appreciating and benefitting from what audiophiles already know to be true about their electrical wiring. You are indeed fortunate in not being limited or obsessed by your own mindset, as apparently so many others are.

Also, I had no idea whatsoever that life involves compromises. Thanks for pointing that out. Gosh, I thought everything could be assumed to be perfect. Live and learn, I guess.

So, while I never thought nothing matters, but that only some things did, audibly, this is a huge revelation now that absolutely everything matters, audibly! I guess I should start trashing my old system and seeking something new until I, too, can start hearing the differences you can hear between power cords, outlets and other tweaks. That is a much better measure of system quality, a better use of time and resources than just idly sitting around and listening to the music for enjoyment.

Excellent points!

Atta boy!!! I was concerned but now I see you are teachable after all.

 

[BlueFox]

In my mind, good clean power is the foundation of the system. Upgrading mine has consistently resulted in positive improvements.

Now medical research is being improved by using Shunyata products in the lab. Read the blurb and watch the video. I found it very interesting.

"For more than 15 years, Shunyata Research has been developing products that use explainable science, objective measurement and extreme parts-customization to improve the performance of electronics systems. Shunyata’s power cords and power-distributors do this by lowering shared power-line noise -- without adding reactive interference to components or limiting peak-current. These achievements drew the attention of the Director of Electrophysiology at the Abbott Northwestern Heart Hospital. The articles and video linked on this page show the dramatic results of this application. Subsequently, Shunyata Research has been contacted by other Hospitals and Bio-Tech companies with interest in obtaining Shunyata Research’s Distributed Power Conditioning systems. Shunyata products have now been successfully applied at a number of hospitals in the US."

http://www.shunyata.com/reviews-all/latest-news/668-noise-reduction-in-medical-procedure

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=gY_g2Txqmoc

 

[fas42]

Quick and easy tweaks tell me whether the system has good potential or not. So I do simple things like conditioning the gear by running it hard for a while, organising, minimising the house's electrical drain at that moment, rearranging where and how the components are plugged in - and listen. I immediately get feedback as to where the setup has potential, and by methodically reversing those tweaks get strong clues as to where the next round of optimising needs to focus.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

In my mind, good clean power is the foundation of the system. Upgrading mine has consistently resulted in positive improvements.

Now medical research is being improved by using Shunyata products in the lab. Read the blurb and watch the video. I found it very interesting.

"For more than 15 years, Shunyata Research has been developing products that use explainable science, objective measurement and extreme parts-customization to improve the performance of electronics systems. Shunyata’s power cords and power-distributors do this by lowering shared power-line noise -- without adding reactive interference to components or limiting peak-current. These achievements drew the attention of the Director of Electrophysiology at the Abbott Northwestern Heart Hospital. The articles and video linked on this page show the dramatic results of this application. Subsequently, Shunyata Research has been contacted by other Hospitals and Bio-Tech companies with interest in obtaining Shunyata Research’s Distributed Power Conditioning systems. Shunyata products have now been successfully applied at a number of hospitals in the US."

http://www.shunyata.com/reviews-all/latest-news/668-noise-reduction-in-medical-procedure

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=gY_g2Txqmoc

Yes, I have seen and read the marketing copy Shunyata has produced for this to celebrate this great "discovery". It is one single anecdote generated by one single electro cardiologist, who also happens to be an audiophile. But, as has been observed elsewhere, one audiophile, in this case one cardiologist, heard/saw a difference with his lab equipment. Therefore, all the textbooks on physics, electronics, electrical codes, etc. need to be rewritten to recognize this great new "discovery" and addition to the basic knowledge base for all mankind.

Fortunately, science does not work that way. When this one doctor submits this for peer review and it is replicated and survives, maybe it will have some useful impact. Has this momentous "finding" been published in any reputable professional journal? If not, that speaks volumes. I will just wait for all that dust to settle, thank you, without insisting that my current electro cardiologist get on board with it. In the mean time, you will excuse me if I relegate this to the category of the sustainable nuclear fusion reaction allegedly produced by two PhDs in the lab several decades ago. That, though highly publicized, was revealed as a total fraud and scandal. Many other claimed, but isolated, hypotheses in many fields have similarly not passed muster. Is this any different? Time will tell.

But, in this case "science" from this one anecdote is the audiophile's friend. Here we have the imprimatur of one doctor, and we know they are all infallible, to attest that Shunyata works wonders on his lab equipment, as well as his stereo. So, obviously we need no controlled, unbiased tests of actual audibility to conclude that we all need this in our audio systems right away!

 

[BlueFox]

LOL. What a total Luddite. Unbelievable. LOL.

 

[Folsom]

The choice could have been another product other than Shunyata, because they all probably use a power conditioner of some sort. The problem they often would presumably run into is that isolation transformers may be common in hospitals but may not be nearly as useful for that machine.

This is just marketing. It's nothing more than a recording studio showing they chose some Kii speaker over some ATC. They just had to make sound is the reality, just like that machine may just need a form of power conditioning.

If Fitz does have a point, it's really that lab equipment showing you it's noise levels doesn't mean the product is going to make Diana Krall sound better in your particular stereo.

Bud, might I suggest you contribute something useful to the topic, as opposed to testing the TOS? But I'd agree the idea of a study on this is preposterous.

 

[BlueFox]

If Fitz does have a point, it's really that lab equipment showing you it's noise levels doesn't mean the product is going to make Diana Krall sound better in your particular stereo.

Perhaps Fitz should actually try something instead of going off on a rant. Maybe it actually does. I can respect healthy inquiry, but a nonsensical rant deserves its own response.

Yes, I have seen and read the marketing copy Shunyata has produced for this to celebrate this great "discovery". It is one single anecdote generated by one single electro cardiologist, who also happens to be an audiophile. But, as has been observed elsewhere, one audiophile, in this case one cardiologist, heard/saw a difference with his lab equipment. Therefore, all the textbooks on physics, electronics, electrical codes, etc. need to be rewritten to recognize this great new "discovery" and addition to the basic knowledge base for all mankind.

Fortunately, science does not work that way. When this one doctor submits this for peer review and it is replicated and survives, maybe it will have some useful impact. Has this momentous "finding" been published in any reputable professional journal? If not, that speaks volumes. I will just wait for all that dust to settle, thank you, without insisting that my current electro cardiologist get on board with it. In the mean time, you will excuse me if I relegate this to the category of the sustainable nuclear fusion reaction allegedly produced by two PhDs in the lab several decades ago. That, though highly publicized, was revealed as a total fraud and scandal. Many other claimed, but isolated, hypotheses in many fields have similarly not passed muster. Is this any different? Time will tell.

But, in this case "science" from this one anecdote is the audiophile's friend. Here we have the imprimatur of one doctor, and we know they are all infallible, to attest that Shunyata works wonders on his lab equipment, as well as his stereo. So, obviously we need no controlled, unbiased tests of actual audibility to conclude that we all need this in our audio systems right away!

 

[Folsom]

Fitz is probably open to discussion, where as you're pointing and laughing.

My statement is not claiming that the product isn't good in a stereo, it's claiming that you don't know by not listening to it in a hospital.

 

[GaryProtein]

The closest things to a tweaks I have done is to power the system from its own electrical subpanel with surge protectors (I needed more power lines and my house panels were full); hospital grade outlets and to ground all the components to a single point (star grounding). No crazy cables, no tuning devices, no $75 fuses or $200 outlets, no miraculous racks or shelves; just good quality cables and components carefully set up.

 

[stehno]

In my mind, good clean power is the foundation of the system. ...

Very insightful, BlueFox. Superior line conditioning (line conditioners that actually cleanse noisy AC without inducing noise of their own) is indeed 1 of 2 elements foundational to any system. It's equally foundational for those that don't employ proper AC filtering / line conditioning, except that their foundation is like quicksand.