The neurons that shaped civilization

[kach22i]

TED
Talks
VS Ramachandran: The neurons that shaped civilization
http://www.ted.com/talks/vs_ramachandran_the_neurons_that_shaped_civilization.html


Interesting topic, hey?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Nice little talk. I am surprised that the discussion of mirror neurons has not yet reached most of the public. In addition to the issues that Dr. Ramachandran raised, they have been implicated in psychiatric disorders as related to issues of empathy and sense of self.

Kal

 

[JackD201]

Seems Lamarck is back.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Seems Lamarck is back.

Well, the problem is that the kind of traits that are learned have no effect on the genome and must be re-learned by each generation. They must be taught and relearned by each generation. That is also the lesson from faded cultures.

Kal

 

[JackD201]

While I'm not sold on inherited memory, I do find that Darwin's (Charles) evolution based on individual survival is somewhat constraining, while Lamarck takes into consideration environmental changes as a catalyst for mass evolutionary adaptations. If one were to look at timelines, Lamarck makes more than a little sense in that regard. An example would be the theory that the introduction of DHA to the human diet was one of the factors that sparked the sudden advancements during the same time frame Ramachandran speaks of. Another example might be that of skin pigmentation after the diaspora if indeed we are all descended from the common mitochondrial DNA source, "Eve".

Environment aside, I googled Lamarck and saw at least three studies by respected educational institutions that show behavioral and even physiological predispositions both positive and negative despite the bred genetic defects remaining fully intact in rats and statistical basis for health problems in humans whose lineage can be traced to the Polish famine.

Interesting stuff. I am not a scientist nor am I a doctor but anthropology has always been an interest of mine.

 

[Steve Williams]

if anyone saw 60 Minutes last evening Lesley Stahl did a segment on "Endless Memory" which highlighted 6 individuals who can literally recount with precise detail literally every day of their lives. It was simply fascinating. These people are all being investigated at UC Irvine

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7166313n&tag=related;photovideo

 

[flez007]

This story reinforce my theory around the long way we have upfront to understand how our mind works, it is indeed an incredible organ/machine.

 

[muralman1]

I don't see anything new in VS's talk. He did not say we feel the touch from around the world, though he inferred that. His discussion was all about vicarious sensations. I know he takes that further.

VS throws out dates that may be convenient, but not accurate. Fire was mastered before Homo Sapiens walked the earth. Homo erectus managed that. Hominids have been using shelters for millions of years. Johansen's, "First Family," was a group of Australopithecus afarensis who were unfortunate to have their shelter cave in on them. We all know chimps and birds use tools. Specialist tool making showed up first with H habilis, aptly called the, "Handyman."

I don't see how this resurrects Lamarck's theories. It is well known that Darwin's theory of gradual evolution has been supplanted largely by punctuated equilibrium. This is where an isolated population, faced by intense environmental pressures, pushes a rapid series of acceptable genetic variations. It speeds up the Darwinian model. Eventually the new species will supplant the older, if the change is superior given the particular environment. A great example of punctuated equilibrium was the 72,000 year old H sapiens, "Bottleneck." There were humans all over Africa, and Asia. They didn't produce anything remarkable. They all were still using the hand axe perfected by H erectus. All were wiped out by a massive volcano explosion and dire aftermath, except for a handful on the West coast of Africa. That population had been evolving largely separately and had made that human leap making artful tools and jewelry. Ochre on the site showed they were likely to have been decorating themselves as well. Their food sources were the ocean and the plateau above. Their survival no doubt was due to their mastery of variety of food sources, and their bright ingenuity, and luck of the draw. By 35,000 years ago, humans had re-plenished the world. Their high culture seemed to popped up simultaneously. That is not the case. They just moved fast throughout the world.

We also experience punctuated equilibrium with the ever changing character of viruses. A new virus is not known, until it starts to expand through a multitude of victims. Then we have to go get that specific flu shot.

 

[amirm]

if anyone saw 60 Minutes last evening Lesley Stahl did a segment on "Endless Memory" which highlighted 6 individuals who can literally recount with precise detail literally every day of their lives. It was simply fascinating. These people are all being investigated at UC Irvine

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7166313n&tag=related;photovideo

It was a wonderful segment. I know someone who is half-way there and has the exact same characteristics they talked about regarding the 6 people with the full version of it.

 

[muralman1]

It has been proven to everyone's satisfaction that identical twins, raised in far separated families will often not only look the same, but act the same too. The brain grows according to one's DNA. Trapped in that growth are hardwired, "truths." We like to call this, "Instinct." We are likely hardwired in the belief in God though this is hard to prove.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Actually, much of brain structure and circuitry is greatly influenced by experience although there is a predetermined substrate and the amount of that shared by identical twins is greater than with unrelated individuals. Belief in God, however, is acquired (by many).

 

[rsbeck]

I would call it susceptibility.

Humans are also susceptible to magical thinking.

Belief in magic and religion satisfies something deep in the human psyche.

This makes us susceptible to it.

There is also the issue of capability.

For example, humans are capable of reading because the human brain is wired for this potential, but it still must be learned.

On the other hand, no matter what you do, you can't teach your dog to read.

His brain isn't wired for the capability.

So, we are both capable and susceptible to magical thinking and religious beliefs.

 

[rsbeck]

Human are also susceptible to in-group/out-group behavior.

On some level it may have helped us survive thousands of years ago.

This lays the fertile ground on which many religious beliefs take root.

For example, "we" believe Jesus was born of a virgin, was crucified, rose on the third day, appeared to his disciples and now sits at the right hand of his father (god) up in "heaven."

This is patently absurd.

In fact, we know several of these things are impossible.

But, if you believe them, you belong and you are bonded to those who believe similarly.

Precisely because you believe, you are now in an "in-group" and you are bonded as separate from those who don't "get" it, who are the out-group.

This can be harmless, but it can also be the groundwork for going to war, which is usually just a rationalization for stealing the resources of a group with less power.

We've got to subdue the "barbarians" who don't hold the same sacred beliefs as do we and -- hey -- they also just happen to have rich oil reserves!

 

[JackD201]

What I think is that we are wired to attempt to put everything in as linear an order as possible in order for us to function. Maybe it is the limitations of our intellect that makes it necessary. Both Science and Religion (formal or informal) bring order by providing structure.

 

[kach22i]

Humans are also susceptible to magical thinking.

True, and we need sleep, deep REM sleep complete with dreams or we will die (central nervous system break down).

I like to keep most of my "magical thinking" to the realm of dreams but there is some leach over.

 

[NorthStar]

Very cool thread and links.

* I worked in a psychiatric hospital when I was 18-19, and I've seen things and talked to people with amazing mental power.
Some people among us have special abilities that no one would ever believe until you witness it yourself.

This is the type of thread that can make me totally bifurcate from the world of Audio which is one of my greatest passion in life.

Thank you Kach, and other members for the lift!

Bob

 

[kach22i]

I've had to restrain myself from posting more of those TED lectures, great stuff.

 

[NorthStar]

All is good on the waterfront George!

 

[audioguy]

Humans are also susceptible to magical thinking.

Cable elevators, Mpingo Dots, LP demagnetizers, et al.

 

[NorthStar]

I agree, good deep sleep, well applicable, even if short (4-5 hours), is the key to awereness!

* My Mom used to work as an assistant pharmacist, and used to read books on 'Good Sleep', and I looked inside them and read the most important sections. Real good stuff!