The Most Mysterious Star - theories about alien-developed megastructures orbiting it

[ack]

There is a fascinating paper coming out theorizing that perhaps alien-developed mega structures are circling a star as if attempting to harness its energy - "solar panels" of unfathomable sizes

In 2011, several citizen scientists flagged one particular star as “interesting” and “bizarre.” The star was emitting a light pattern that looked stranger than any of the others Kepler was watching. The light pattern suggests there is a big mess of matter circling the star, in tight formation. That would be expected if the star were young. When our solar system first formed, four and a half billion years ago, a messy disk of dust and debris surrounded the sun, before gravity organized it into planets, and rings of rock and ice. But this unusual star isn’t young. If it were young, it would be surrounded by dust that would give off extra infrared light. There doesn’t seem to be an excess of infrared light around this star. It appears to be mature. And yet, there is this mess of objects circling it. A mess big enough to block a substantial number of photons that would have otherwise beamed into the tube of the Kepler Space Telescope.

Jason Wright, an astronomer from Penn State University, is set to publish an alternative interpretation of the light pattern. SETI researchers have long suggested that we might be able to detect distant extraterrestrial civilizations, by looking for enormous technological artifacts orbiting other stars. Wright and his co-authors say the unusual star’s light pattern is consistent with a “swarm of megastructures,” perhaps stellar-light collectors, technology designed to catch energy from the star. “When [Boyajian] showed me the data, I was fascinated by how crazy it looked,” Wright told me. “Aliens should always be the very last hypothesis you consider, but this looked like something you would expect an alien civilization to build.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-most-interesting-star-in-our-galaxy/410023/

Question: if an alien civilization has built mega-structures to capture energy, wouldn't you think they would have found us first. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what this is all about in the next few months.

 

[Keith_W]

Let's just reduce this to what we actually know: we have found a star which dims 22% in irregular patterns at regular intervals. For a star to dim 22%, the object has to be either massive, or close to us relative to the star. 22% is a massive amount of dimming, if a planet like Jupiter were orbiting that star, the dimming would be only 1%.

I would prefer it if they had simply stuck to the science and say that they haven't explained it yet. Rather than say "... might be aliens" because that would cause too many people to jump to conclusions.

As to why they haven't found us yet - that's because they are 1480 light years away. Events that we are observing right now occurred in 535AD. Back in 535AD, we had not yet constructed anything that would advertise our presence to alien civilizations, let alone one that is so far away. Even if they were able to detect our radio transmissions (we have been broadcasting for less than 100 years), it would take that long for the transmissions to reach them. If they responded immediately, it would be another 3000 years before their transmissions reach us. If they tried to fly here, it would take even longer - no object can exceed the speed of light.

 

[BlueFox]

Halo.

 

[ack]

In the article, a paper is being referenced; in it, they seem to be asserting that the orbiting objects are not round, nor anything that we can currently recognize. That's the basis of their claims, though I agree they seem premature; it will be interesting to see whether they can convince the VLA management in N. Mexico to turn all their eyes in that direction. The orbiting objects are... massive... for lack of a better description.

 

[DaveyF]

Question: if an alien civilization has built mega-structures to capture energy, wouldn't you think they would have found us first. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what this is all about in the next few months.

I would strongly suspect that any alien civilization that would be as advanced as to have developed that technology, would have discovered us a long time ago....and simply moved on.

 

[BlueFox]

I would strongly suspect that any alien civilization that would be as advanced as to have developed that technology, would have discovered us a long time ago....and simply moved on.

Maybe they did. Now, very maybe, we discovered them.

 

[ack]

When Michio Kaku gets involved, then it gets really interesting; and he answers my question. Watch this http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/have-astronomers-discovered-an-alien-megastructure - a megastructure larger than Jupiter??? A Type-II civilization???

 

[Steve Williams]

Fascinating stuff ack. As always thanks for finding this story

 

[ack]

Thanks Steve and everyone else.

 

[Steve Williams]

One has to wonder if indeed this is a civilization which if so places them at least 1000 years ahead of us if not more then as Keith said nothing can go faster than the speed of light (as we know it) they will take over 1000 years to get here. However what might they know that we don't even know that we don't know. Wormholes, bend space time etc etc

Simply fascinating to hear Michio speak. Astrotoy here was a classmate of Michio. Wouldn't you love to sit down for an hour with him and talk stuff like this.

 

[treitz3]

Hello ack. I was reading about this the other day and it's a shame I can't relocate the original article I was reading. It was about 4 to 5 times more in-depth with regards to information. I should have posted it after I was done reading but you know what's funny? I thought that you would be posting about this. Here we are and in fact, you did.



Fascinating stuff.

Tom

 

[ack]

One has to wonder if indeed this is a civilization which if so places them at least 1000 years ahead of us if not more then as Keith said nothing can go faster than the speed of light (as we know it) they will take over 1000 years to get here. However what might they know that we don't even know that we don't know. Wormholes, bend space time etc etc

Simply fascinating to hear Michio speak. Astrotoy here was a classmate of Michio. Wouldn't you love to sit down for an hour with him and talk stuff like this.

Wouldn't I indeed. And we are just discovering mainstream electric cars with 500-mi batteries; whaaaat???? But here's the thing... do they have this

Will be posting about this in the Mahler thread

 

[ack]

Hello ack. I was reading about this the other day and it's a shame I can't relocate the original article I was reading. It was about 4 to 5 times more in-depth with regards to information. I should have posted it after I was done reading but you know what's funny? I thought that you would be posting about this. Here we are and in fact, you did.



Fascinating stuff.

Tom

and there is only such little time left on earth to learn about it all

 

[Al M.]

Let's just reduce this to what we actually know: we have found a star which dims 22% in irregular patterns at regular intervals. For a star to dim 22%, the object has to be either massive, or close to us relative to the star. 22% is a massive amount of dimming, if a planet like Jupiter were orbiting that star, the dimming would be only 1%.

I would prefer it if they had simply stuck to the science and say that they haven't explained it yet. Rather than say "... might be aliens" because that would cause too many people to jump to conclusions.

Well, the article states about the paper:

When I spoke to Boyajian [the author] on the phone, she explained that her recent paper only reviews “natural” scenarios. “But,” she said, there were “other scenarios” she was considering.

So in the paper proper they do stick to the science, as they should -- I agree with you.

As Michio Kaku concedes, while it could be exciting, the greatest discovery of the last 500 years, it could also be the wildest goose chase since the Loch Ness Monster.

So let's not get carried away.

Michio Kaku is also a fan of the multiverse hypothesis, and a few years ago there were scientists who claimed that from the map of the CMB (cosmic microwave radiation) they could deduce another universe based on some deformations of the map. Turns out, it was a statistical blip.

Remember a few years ago the claim that some particles moved slightly faster than light, calling into question Einsteins theory of General Relativity? More recent verdict: measurement error.

 

[Steve Williams]

Michio Kaku is also a fan of the multiverse hypothesis, and a few years ago there were scientists who claimed that froom the map of the CMB (cosmic microwave radiation) they could deduce another universe based on some deformations of the map. Turns out, it was a statistical blip.

This is essentially proponents of the Big Bounce Theory which for me makes a lot of sense

 

[Al M.]

This is essentially proponents of the Big Bounce Theory which for me makes a lot of sense

Perhaps, but it's unprovable, since unobservable. Thus, it's not science. Yes, it can be modeled mathematically, but in the natural sciences mathematics does not create reality, it only describes it -- based on observations.

***

By the way, in recent years the Big Bounce hypothesis has encountered a severe difficulty. We now know that our universe will expand forever, because of Dark Energy. So if ours does not bounce, why should there have been countless others before ours that did bounce -- until by some fluke ours is the last one in an immensely large series?

 

[DaveyF]

Or, there is this theory: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...e-floating-inside-of-it-suggests-new-research

Apparently a LOT of the math that doesn't work for a three dimensional perspective, now works very well given the above theory. Food for thought???

 

[Al M.]

Or, there is this theory: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...e-floating-inside-of-it-suggests-new-research

Apparently a LOT of the math that doesn't work for a three dimensional perspective, now works very well given the above theory. Food for thought???

Very skeptical. I don't think that string theory, on which this is based, will turn out to be correct. Scientists are already panicking since the Large Hadron Collider *) has found no evidence for Supersymmetry thus far, a favorite toy of string theorists these days.

Reading Lee Smolin's book The Trouble with Physics is enlightening. This well known theoretical physicist soured on string theory after he had first been a strong supporter of it. His book gives compelling reasons why.

_________


*) With the Large Hadron Collider they did find the Higgs Boson of course. But that was predicted by the Standard Model of Physics, and we have strong and multiple experimental evidence since a long time that this model is correct.

In fact, the Standard Model was built on experimental evidence from the get-go, while after 40 years of string theory there is still not a single shred of observational evidence for it. Only a lot of fanciful speculation about mutliverses, colliding Branes, and what not.

 

[Steve Williams]

Al, I am duly impressed with your knowledge in this great thing of ours

 

[ack]

Here's a good read on why we are not yet ready to crown either theory or why neither is dead yet http://www.businessinsider.com/supersymmetry-is-a-big-deal-for-physics-2015-3