Stillpoints Aperture Acoustic Panels

[tima]

Hi Priaptor - I don't usually directly interject my "at home" experience. That disclaimer noted... I currently have 3 panels in my system. One behind the speakers on the floor against the wall and one on the floor at each reflection point. I, too, found more than one at the reflection points to close down the overall signature deleting some significant elicate cues. I find the on-the-floor location very effective for controlling LF response. I also have to note that I have not been able to have enough Apertures at any one time to complete the kind of behind the speaker wall treatment, and general experimentation, that Tim (tima) has found most effective in his setup. I am most anxious to be able to try a checkerboard-like setup on that wall having access to 7 or 8 Apertures with which to experiment.

The reason I am intrigued by this setup is that on a couple of occasions, when panels were stacked one on top of each other from the floor up, the image focus seems
uneven somehow, like it is concentrated at those places on the wall where the "columns" of Apertures are located. Hence the idea to try spreading them out to cure that
issue.

John

I came to the 'checkerboard' layout as seen in my room pic after 4-5 weeks of experimenting and that's where things have settled for the last month or so. If I had a few more I'd try an additional three spaced evenly across my back wall. I can imagine that would the icing, but my guesses have been off before, so actually placing the panels and listening is the only way to know.

My first experiments employed the stacking method because that is even simpler than the 3M strips (which are pretty darn simple.) I went as high as three panels stacked in the middle, also trying multiples behind the speakers, and one or two in each corner in conjunction with larger bass traps I had there. Like the old Moody Blues album, it came down to 'a question of balance'. Among the attributes I considered were: frequency balance, image clarity and placement, detail clarity, tonal depth, low frequency weight and articulation, and a general sense of 'presence' and verisimilitude. I enjoy mostly acoustic (classical) music and don't do home theater. As noted, it is easy to hear the impact of each panel's placement. For example, moving the two panels behind each speaker just six inches closer to the center resulted in a loss of image clarity while narrowing the soundstage spread.

A significant improvement came when I removed the large corner bass traps and used a single Aperture in each corner. I think I have a way to mount the corner panels up off the ground, I just haven't done that yet. Placing them on record crates to get them about 12" off the floor gives a bit better performance, perhaps because they center on the speaker's port. Where you can really have some fun (and learn just how influential the Aperture is on low frequencies) is by varying the distance of the panel between the corner and the speaker. That distance influences bass articulation versus low-end tonal weight, and you get to 'dial-in' the character of the bass to your liking. Though I know there is a point where too much articulation is is not lifelike. I also know that the way a room handles bass influences every higher frequency.

While I don't listen to bass for the sake of making claims about bass in my room, I do care if my speakers and room properly resolve, say, 'Siegfried's Funeral March' from Götterdämmerung with all the proper weight, heft, and crunch the Berlin Philharmonic can muster: trombones, basses, cymbals, horns, and massive timpani whacks resounding together with sufficient clarity while I still hear both the shimmer and the bowing articulation from the cello section, the golden hue from the trumpets, the decay from the timps and everything else in between with coherence and harmonic elan. Or hear with clarity all the lyrics from Natalie Merchant singing 'Diver Boy'. Or support the illusion of Arthur Grumiaux and four others sitting there - right there - between my speakers as they perform Mozart's later viola quintets. Or the finest of filigreed harmonics floating upward ever higher discretely from each violin section as Giuseppe Sinopoli takes the New York Philharmonic through the Prelude to Act 1 from Lohengrin. I know the sound of real instruments and voices and of orchestras in a hall. I have sufficient limbic awareness to know the difference between when the gear draws my attention and when the music does. I get no listening satisfaction from having a set of numbers to throw around an audio forum - I don't need them to trust my ears and to know the Apertures work well. I'm all for skepticism with new products, but repeatedly beating us over the head with that skepticism repeatedly fails to convince that the skeptic's last post is any more informative than his first. It's okay to listen even if there are no numbers./rantoff

From my own experience I will make a suggestion for those desiring to experiment with the Apertures. Most folks probably already have some acoustic treatment. Experiment with integrating the Apertures into your existing room, but at some point, if possible, try them with all other manufacturer's panels and treatments removed. In my opinion this is a way best to gauge the impact each Aperture panel has and to eliminate possible interactions that cause confusing or unresolvable results. Prior to doing that it was obvious the Apertures had an effect but only after overcoming my reluctance to give up the gains I'd made with alternative treatments did my room make significant progress. After trying that approach then try re-integrating other treatments to see where that takes things. Just a suggestion.

 

[LL21]

Fantastic post...I will experiment with the placement of the 2 panels behind each main speaker. Both in height and distance away from the speaker. Two questions since you clearly have some experience here:

1. Do you keep you panels parallel to the back wall...or the back of the speaker? (My speakers are toed in so of course the back of the speaker and back wall are not parallel.)

2. When you bring the panel closer to the back of the speaker, what happens to bass exactly? You said it changed...just curious as to what you found in your experiments...that should get me started a little ahead.

Thanks and enjoy!

 

[microstrip]

(...) Or support the illusion of Arthur Grumiaux and four others sitting there - right there - between my speakers as they perform Mozart's later viola quintets. (...)

Great music and great recording. The second viola makes these quintets particularly challenging in terms of sound quality. I think you will be pleased to read the following comment about Mozart string quintets from the Gramophone site:

For recordings, there are few and only some can do enough justice to these extremely difficult to be appropriately performed unique works. I think, in mid-price, the Grumiaux trio (with guests) is a safe choice (on Philips, if it's still available, in any form) along with the quite solid Talich Quartet on Caliope. The best but very expensive (now it has been deleted and you have to get it as a collectible) is with the Fine Arts Quartet on the French Lyrinx. The Amadeus is good but it doesn't give all the nuances and colours of these multi-faceted works.

 

[LL21]

Great music and great recording. The second viola makes these quintets particularly challenging in terms of sound quality. I think you will be pleased to read the following comment about Mozart string quintets from the Gramophone site:

For recordings, there are few and only some can do enough justice to these extremely difficult to be appropriately performed unique works. I think, in mid-price, the Grumiaux trio (with guests) is a safe choice (on Philips, if it's still available, in any form) along with the quite solid Talich Quartet on Caliope. The best but very expensive (now it has been deleted and you have to get it as a collectible) is with the Fine Arts Quartet on the French Lyrinx. The Amadeus is good but it doesn't give all the nuances and colours of these multi-faceted works.

Great stuff Micro. Will cue up the Talich now...and found the Fine Arts on amazon.

 

[tima]

Fantastic post...I will experiment with the placement of the 2 panels behind each main speaker. Both in height and distance away from the speaker. Two questions since you clearly have some experience here:

1. Do you keep you panels parallel to the back wall...or the back of the speaker? (My speakers are toed in so of course the back of the speaker and back wall are not parallel.)

2. When you bring the panel closer to the back of the speaker, what happens to bass exactly? You said it changed...just curious as to what you found in your experiments...that should get me started a little ahead.

Thanks and enjoy!

Hi - I'll try to speak to your questions; forgive the length as I try to be clear.

On the wall behind the speakers the panels are mounted to it in a fixed position. My speakers are also toed in toward the listening position - roughly in an 11' equilateral.

The angle of the speakers has their backs pointing roughly toward the corner junction of the front and side walls. In each of those corners I have one panel - you can see one peeking from behind the speaker in the picture of my room. That panel currently is not fixed. By moving that single panel in each corner I can influence the room acoustics and what I hear. Placing that panel, for example, parallel to the back of the speaker, effectively pointing at the speaker's port - I can effect the sharpness and impact of an initial transient of attack - say of a plucked string bass. Closer to the speaker means sharper and firmer. However, closer also diminishes the heft and depth of the fundamental and the relative harmonic development that goes along with it. Further from the speaker and closer to the corner means the bass is 'looser' though richer and a touch warmer.

Some folks give considerable weight to how tight they hear bass attack; sometimes it is spoken of as measuring dynamic impact in conjunction with the capacity of an amplifier to generate it. From an acoustical perspective I'm first inclined toward the pitch and tonal character of lower frequencies and I'm reluctant to sacrifice that information for tighter bass, at least in acoustic orchestral or chamber music. Even in hard rock with impressive dynamics such as found on Keith Richard's Main Offender (try 'Words of Wonder') there's gobs of harmonic complexity to be had. So for me, adjusting the distance of the Aperture between the corner and the speaker amounts to tuning the sound. Since the thing just sits on the floor it is easy to experiment. Raising the Aperture up off the floor (in my case, about 12") gives slightly better results.

Of course one can also play around with the angle of the panel relative to the speaker, the corner, and the walls. For example, placing the panel tight to the corner to create an equilateral with the walls, versus keeping it parallel to the back of the speaker. That's what I mean by experimenting. I came to address the panel in the corner after fixing the ones on the back wall, so that gave me something of a baseline and I was only manipulating two panels. Without something like that approach, having ten of the things would drive me nuts with all the possibilities. As noted earlier, I spent over a month playing around with them. There very well could be a better arrangement than what I have, but for now, I continue to be self-impressed with the results I'm getting with each listening session and will stick with that for at least another month before experimenting some more. Thanks.

 

[tima]

Great music and great recording. The second viola makes these quintets particularly challenging in terms of sound quality. I think you will be pleased to read the following comment about Mozart string quintets from the Gramophone site:

For recordings, there are few and only some can do enough justice to these extremely difficult to be appropriately performed unique works. I think, in mid-price, the Grumiaux trio (with guests) is a safe choice (on Philips, if it's still available, in any form) along with the quite solid Talich Quartet on Caliope. The best but very expensive (now it has been deleted and you have to get it as a collectible) is with the Fine Arts Quartet on the French Lyrinx. The Amadeus is good but it doesn't give all the nuances and colours of these multi-faceted works.

Yes, the music is incredible. Versus the quartets, imo, the quintets are like a new realm of Mozart discovery and sophistication.

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I see where the SACD of the FAQ on Lyrinx is definitely more dinero, but you have tempted me!

I play the Grumiaux Trio (plus guests) from the original '74 Phillips LPs. The sound quality is omg amazing.
(Philips 6500 619, 6500 620, 6500 621)

 

[LL21]

Yes, the music is incredible. Versus the quartets, imo, the quintets are like a new realm of Mozart discovery and sophistication.

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I see where the SACD of the FAQ on Lyrinx is definitely more dinero, but you have tempted me!

I play the Grumiaux Trio (plus guests) from the original '74 Phillips LPs. The sound quality is omg amazing.
(Philips 6500 619, 6500 620, 6500 621)

I have had and enjoyed the Talich Quartet version on Calliope for years...and have ordered the Fine Arts Quartet on Lyrinx. Fortunately much, much less in UK than US. Looking forward to it.

 

[LL21]

Fantastic detailed response!! I will start to move the panels around based on your experiments below. Thanks for taking the time!!!

Hi - I'll try to speak to your questions; forgive the length as I try to be clear.

On the wall behind the speakers the panels are mounted to it in a fixed position. My speakers are also toed in toward the listening position - roughly in an 11' equilateral.

The angle of the speakers has their backs pointing roughly toward the corner junction of the front and side walls. In each of those corners I have one panel - you can see one peeking from behind the speaker in the picture of my room. That panel currently is not fixed. By moving that single panel in each corner I can influence the room acoustics and what I hear. Placing that panel, for example, parallel to the back of the speaker, effectively pointing at the speaker's port - I can effect the sharpness and impact of an initial transient of attack - say of a plucked string bass. Closer to the speaker means sharper and firmer. However, closer also diminishes the heft and depth of the fundamental and the relative harmonic development that goes along with it. Further from the speaker and closer to the corner means the bass is 'looser' though richer and a touch warmer.

Some folks give considerable weight to how tight they hear bass attack; sometimes it is spoken of as measuring dynamic impact in conjunction with the capacity of an amplifier to generate it. From an acoustical perspective I'm first inclined toward the pitch and tonal character of lower frequencies and I'm reluctant to sacrifice that information for tighter bass, at least in acoustic orchestral or chamber music. Even in hard rock with impressive dynamics such as found on Keith Richard's Main Offender (try 'Words of Wonder') there's gobs of harmonic complexity to be had. So for me, adjusting the distance of the Aperture between the corner and the speaker amounts to tuning the sound. Since the thing just sits on the floor it is easy to experiment. Raising the Aperture up off the floor (in my case, about 12") gives slightly better results.

Of course one can also play around with the angle of the panel relative to the speaker, the corner, and the walls. For example, placing the panel tight to the corner to create an equilateral with the walls, versus keeping it parallel to the back of the speaker. That's what I mean by experimenting. I came to address the panel in the corner after fixing the ones on the back wall, so that gave me something of a baseline and I was only manipulating two panels. Without something like that approach, having ten of the things would drive me nuts with all the possibilities. As noted earlier, I spent over a month playing around with them. There very well could be a better arrangement than what I have, but for now, I continue to be self-impressed with the results I'm getting with each listening session and will stick with that for at least another month before experimenting some more. Thanks.

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks for the recommendations. Will be getting them

 

[LL21]

Thanks for the recommendations. Will be getting them

Nice one! Let us know when they arrive.

 

[GuillaumeB]

Nice one! Let us know when they arrive.

I'm also hoping to get some of these soon. My issue is that I have a cinema screen in between my speakers which means I can't attach the Apertures to the forward-facing wall. So either I can stack them, which just about works but not ideal, or they come out with a floor standing version, perhaps even adjustable! The same goes for the LHS speaker - the first reflection point overlaps with the doorway.

The distributor (Kog Audio) has mentioned that something might be in the works. Alternatively I may have to look at a more DIY solution (for holding them).

Anyway I heard the previous generation of Apertures here and was amazed by their effect.

Guillaume

 

[LL21]

I'm also hoping to get some of these soon. My issue is that I have a cinema screen in between my speakers which means I can't attach the Apertures to the forward-facing wall. So either I can stack them, which just about works but not ideal, or they come out with a floor standing version, perhaps even adjustable! The same goes for the LHS speaker - the first reflection point overlaps with the doorway.

The distributor (Kog Audio) has mentioned that something might be in the works. Alternatively I may have to look at a more DIY solution (for holding them).

Anyway I heard the previous generation of Apertures here and was amazed by their effect.

Guillaume

I have thought about this for our own future room...what if you attach the Apertures to a long swivel-arm...you can swivel them in front of the flatscreen when listening and swivel them easily out of the way when watching films? You can use a high polished swivel arm so its looks relative nice?

 

[GuillaumeB]

I have thought about this for our own future room...what if you attach the Apertures to a long swivel-arm...you can swivel them in front of the flatscreen when listening and swivel them easily out of the way when watching films? You can use a high polished swivel arm so its looks relative nice?

Great idea! Going to have a think about this...

Guillaume

 

[LL21]

Great idea! Going to have a think about this...

Guillaume

let us know if you decide to try it...if we end up doing dedicated listening/movie room, this is the way we will go if the screen is permanently on the wall and not down from the ceiling.

 

[LL21]

I wonder if Apertures have something similar to GIKs bass trap (35hz-125hz only) which is apparently a panel only 4 inches thick.

http://gikacoustics.co.uk/product/gik-acoustics-scopus-tuned-bass-trap-t70/

 

[GuillaumeB]

I wonder if Apertures have something similar to GIKs bass trap (35hz-125hz only) which is apparently a panel only 4 inches thick.

http://gikacoustics.co.uk/product/gik-acoustics-scopus-tuned-bass-trap-t70/

Very interesting... I actually already have 4 GIK Tri-trap corner panels which are stacked in the corners of the front wall (2 on each side). I notice in their marketing material that they recommend starting with broadband bass traps (which is what the Tri-trap is). I wonder where they think the Scopus panels should go then since they say these can be mounted directly in the corner... my 2 front corners are full!

Guillaume

 

[LL21]

Very interesting... I actually already have 4 GIK Tri-trap corner panels which are stacked in the corners of the front wall (2 on each side). I notice in their marketing material that they recommend starting with broadband bass traps (which is what the Tri-trap is). I wonder where they think the Scopus panels should go then since they say these can be mounted directly in the corner... my 2 front corners are full!

Guillaume

Will be interesting to learn of your thoughts on Apertures vs GIK.

 

[GuillaumeB]

Scopus are the membrane tuned traps, I am particularly interested in these, Especially as GIK state that they can build exactly to the centre frequency of your issue.
Dirac says my big hump is at 31.4Hz, we shall see, hopefully hear back from GIk tomorrow.
Keith.

Right, just ordered a microphone. Going to jump into this Dirac business!

Guillaume

 

[GuillaumeB]

G I would be really interested to hear your thoughts, I find the 'sofa' setting preferable to single chair ( all will become clear after you have downloaded) also once the filters have been optimised you may find you have a little digital clipping,
just redcse the gain,finally remember you can choose the amount of the spectrum you correct, interesting stuff!
Keith

Hi Keith I've been putting this off for years but have decided to give it a go now. I run all my music on a UPnP server so Dirac might not be terribly convenient, particularly since I don't use a computer to stream. However I'm really keen to get detailed room measurements. Anyway it will be fun to experiment. Have you heard the Stillpoints Apertures?

Guillaume

 

[Priaptor]

I'm also hoping to get some of these soon. My issue is that I have a cinema screen in between my speakers which means I can't attach the Apertures to the forward-facing wall. So either I can stack them, which just about works but not ideal, or they come out with a floor standing version, perhaps even adjustable! The same goes for the LHS speaker - the first reflection point overlaps with the doorway.

The distributor (Kog Audio) has mentioned that something might be in the works. Alternatively I may have to look at a more DIY solution (for holding them).

Anyway I heard the previous generation of Apertures here and was amazed by their effect.

Guillaume

For what it is worth, I find they work best when you place them as close to the wall as possible. I have tried them "freestanding" with a DIY stand on the first side reflection and didn't like them there and was less impressed with their effect when moved away from the front wall between the speakers on a similar stand. I found them to be most effective when there was little or no gap against the wall they were being used on. Just my experience.