Still something very wrong with Korg Audiogate DSD to PCM conversion?

[stevekale]

Roxy Music - Avalon (stereo tracks). In each case processed to WAV @ 88.2kHz with 0 added gain, no dither. Stats from sox.

Korg Audiogate

Overall Left Right
DC offset -0.000005 -0.000005 0.000001
Min level -1.000000 -1.000000 -1.000000
Max level 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000
Pk lev dB 0.00 0.00 0.00
RMS lev dB -16.34 -16.38 -16.30
RMS Pk dB -7.89 -8.76 -7.89
RMS Tr dB -299.12 -299.12 -299.12
Crest factor - 6.59 6.53
Flat factor 19.20 18.35 19.85
Pk count 5.66k 5.17k 6.14k
Bit-depth 24/24 24/24 24/24
Num samples 198M
Length s 2239.960
Scale max 1.000000
Window s 0.050

Weiss Saracon

Overall Left Right
DC offset -0.000003 -0.000003 -0.000000
Min level -0.664709 -0.662986 -0.664709
Max level 0.667443 0.649149 0.667443
Pk lev dB -3.51 -3.57 -3.51
RMS lev dB -22.36 -22.40 -22.32
RMS Pk dB -13.91 -14.78 -13.91
RMS Tr dB -242.76 -242.76 -242.76
Crest factor - 8.74 8.72
Flat factor 0.00 0.00 0.00
Pk count 2 2 2
Bit-depth 24/24 24/24 24/24
Num samples 198M
Length s 2239.961
Scale max 1.000000
Window s 0.050

Ideas?

 

[rbbert]

It really appears that Audiogate is peak limiting in some way. Notice that the difference between peak rms and average rms is the same for both software, but then the peak level is "clipped" off with Audiogate, by just about 6 dB. there must be a "+6 dB" setting in Audiogate somewhere that is turned on.

 

[stevekale]

This is version 2.3.3 (latest). This version allows one to add or subtract gain but it does indeed still seem to be adding (an inappropriate amount of) gain itself.

 

[Bruce B]

What are the peak/rms stats before src?

Is Audiogate adding gain or is Saracon reducing gain?

 

[stevekale]

SRC? I can only run the stats on a converted WAV file.

Who knows. Given Audiogate used to have a fixed gain added and no ability to change it I suspect it is still doing so.

 

[Bruce B]

SRC? I can only run the stats on a converted WAV file.

Who knows. Given Audiogate used to have a fixed gain added and no ability to change it I suspect it is still doing so.

src= sample rate conversion

So you don't know the stats of the original file? I think you need to determine that first.

 

[stevekale]

Well it's pretty clear that using Audiogate with gain set to zero will often lead to very unsatisfying results.

Perhaps a note to Korg is in order...

 

[Bruce B]

Well it's pretty clear that using Audiogate with gain set to zero will often lead to very unsatisfying results.

How can you determine this if you don't know what you started out to begin with?

I would be highly suspect that Roxy Music was recorded with peaks of -3.57dB !!

 

[rbbert]

But it's at least equally unlikely that Saracon somehow added dynamic range. As for the -3.57 dB peaks, Saracon reduces gain in 6 dB increments if the volume of the converted file will otherwise exceed 0 dB.

 

[Bruce B]

I don't think I have that cut, but can do some measurements on my DSD workstations later.

If the peaks were +3dB in the original file and Saracon reduces by 6dB, then you have your answer.