Steak: Anyone think this is worth trying?

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
I don't think that would be a very good idea. If you think about it, the aims of cooking steak are:

1. Develop Maillard flavours (more browning equals more flavour)
2. NOT overcook the interior.

The problem with most methods of cooking steak is that the heat is not ferocious enough to fulfil both aims, particularly if you have a thinner cut of steak. When cooking steak, you HAVE to think about how heat travels through the meat. This is pretty evident when you cut into the steak. A poorly cooked steak only has a thin sliver of medium rare in the center, with most of the steak overcooked. A well cooked steak has more medium rare, with only a thin band (perhaps 1mm) of the surface overcooked.

To illustrate, here is a picture from a site that purportedly teaches you how to cook steak. Notice the thick band of overcooked meat in their medium rare steak:



And this is one that I prepared earlier. Notice how the entire steak is medium rare, from surface to surface, with only a tiny band of overcooked meat and a well browned crust:



I can tell you that if you were to use the method suggested, the way the heat travels through the meat would result in a steak that looks more like the first picture than the second with the likelihood that the surface will not be browned enough. Why? Because you need heat ... and A LOT OF HEAT ... to get nice browning. A pre-heated slab of cast iron won't do it.

I'm not sure if I have posted this method on WBF before, but Heston Blumenthal has developed a method to cook a steak by flipping it often. Using thermal imaging, he showed that the side away from the pan loses heat very quickly. The traditional method of cooking steak calls for leaving the steak unmolested for a set time and then flipping it once. What this will do is overcook a band of meat without adequate crust formation. Frequent flipping provides little pulses of heat to each side of the steak in 15 second intervals, which means the steak cooks more evenly, more quickly, and with a better crust.

I have pushed this method even further. This method actually selectively heats the surface of the steak. I haven't seen it published anywhere else, so I think I can claim it as my invention :) This is what I do:

- 15 seconds on one side
- flip, 15 seconds on the other side
- remove steak from pan and rest for 15-30 seconds. During this time, heat escapes from BOTH surfaces of the steak. In the meantime, the pan heats up and starts to caramelize meat particles already on the pan. Remember that Maillard reactions are autocatalytic - meaning that you get more rapid browning if there are already Maillard molecules present. By the time the steak is returned to the pan, the pan is incredibly hot.
- repeat until the steak is cooked.

This method works well for thinner cuts of steak, OR if the heat source is inadequate. For thick cuts of steak, I still recommend two stage cooking (as in my other thread).
That's how I do marinated hanger or skirt steaks to avoid overcooking. But, since I don't have sous vide equipment, on thick steaks, I sear a little on high, then cook on lower heat, both sides, flipping frequently, then take off the grill and let stand (self-cooking,like self-deportation) for a minute or so, then finish on high for a minute or less, depending on thickness. Seems to get a similar, not quite as good as yours, result. Any recommendations, short of sous vide, for the big steaks?
Thanks.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
Given family history of heart disease, I watch my saturated fats closely -- I eat about 1/3 as much steak as I might like to. So when I do have it at home, it's wood-grilling or nothing for me. Been liking pecan wood lately with beef; my grill is made of 10ga steel with heavy, raisable grates and really holds heat well. Usual method is to sear each side -- 1 1/4" ribeye or strip usually, then cook indirectly (hood closed, not over the flame). Total cook time is around 7 min. for med. rare.

Thinner stuff like hangar I'll have pan fried in a restaurant once in awhile, and I've seen some use presses like the one pictured. Was in Argentina earlier in the year, watched/talked some technique and bought the Francis Malman book -- plan to incorporate that into my repertoire over time. Any steak lover should get him/herself out to Las Lilas in Buenos Aires -- had a spectacular steak there. Some of the cuts in Argentina are different than NA and really good.

And btw, here's how you cook lamb:

View attachment 6967
Looked like he was getting ready to throw the dog on the grill. That was upsetting.
 

Mosin

[Industry Expert]
Mar 11, 2012
895
13
930
Looked like he was getting ready to throw the dog on the grill. That was upsetting.

That would be done in the Philippines, not Argentina. I say that because over at Lenco Heaven there is a member from there who did exactly that. Needless to say, all the other members of the forum breezed past his post very quickly, even those who happen to be from places in the world where that might be considered normal. Most audiophiles who I know about do not eat dogs and cats. There are exceptions!

Oh, the guy is actually a very sophisticated, well-heeled audiophile. His culture is different...to say the very least. Unless you want a true negative seared in your head, you might not want to check out my story, but it's your move. It's down in the "Member's Only" section at "Off Topic", so you'll have to join the forum to see it. Not meant as a pun, but "Curiosity killed the cat."
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
That would be done in the Philippines, not Argentina. I say that because over at Lenco Heaven there is a member from there who did exactly that. Needless to say, all the other members of the forum breezed past his post very quickly, even those who happen to be from places in the world where that might be considered normal. Most audiophiles who I know about do not eat dogs and cats. There are exceptions!

Oh, the guy is actually a very sophisticated, well-heeled audiophile. His culture is different...to say the very least. Unless you want a true negative seared in your head, you might not want to check out my story, but it's your move. It's down in the "Member's Only" section at "Off Topic", so you'll have to join the forum to see it. Not meant as a pun, but "Curiosity killed the cat."
Nope, ain't goin there.
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
2,151
292
1,670
NYC/NJ
Looked like he was getting ready to throw the dog on the grill. That was upsetting.

No, no, no :) though we did eat the lamb next to pens of live lambs. This was the yearly lamb auction in the Patagonia region. Cool event to attend.
 

puroagave

Member Sponsor
Sep 29, 2011
1,345
45
970
Nope, ain't goin there.

i was retracing atahualpa's steps through the ecuadorian highands and happened upon a thousands year old open air market in otavalo. I observed them eating what looked like rats on a stick, they called them "cuy" (guinea pig) they actually weren't bad. when in rome...

btw, agentine parrillada and brazilian churasco is a steak lovers fantasy come true. agentina is the last place they'd bbq man's best friend... bife de lomo (filet mignon) is so abundant its as common and nearly as inexpensive as eating a burger.
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY

Keith_W

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2012
1,024
95
970
Melbourne, Australia
www.whatsbestforum.com
That's how I do marinated hanger or skirt steaks to avoid overcooking. But, since I don't have sous vide equipment, on thick steaks, I sear a little on high, then cook on lower heat, both sides, flipping frequently, then take off the grill and let stand (self-cooking,like self-deportation) for a minute or so, then finish on high for a minute or less, depending on thickness. Seems to get a similar, not quite as good as yours, result. Any recommendations, short of sous vide, for the big steaks?
Thanks.

Hey whart, if you want even cooking on big steaks, and don't have SV equipment, I recommend slow roasting.

To slow roast a steak, turn your oven as low as it will go. Mine goes as low as 60C, which is good because I want the final temp in my steak to be 55C. I leave the door slightly open to lower the temperature further. It takes 3-4 hours for the steak to reach cooked temperature. Note that leaving your steaks at this temperature for so long increases your chance of food poisoning so make sure that you have ultra-fresh steaks that you obtained from a butcher you trust, and do not serve this steak to someone who is elderly or pregnant. In reality I have done this quite a few times with no problems, but then I have an excellent butcher who cuts the meat in front of me, and I keep the steak chilled until I am ready to cook.
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY
Hey whart, if you want even cooking on big steaks, and don't have SV equipment, I recommend slow roasting.

To slow roast a steak, turn your oven as low as it will go. Mine goes as low as 60C, which is good because I want the final temp in my steak to be 55C. I leave the door slightly open to lower the temperature further. It takes 3-4 hours for the steak to reach cooked temperature. Note that leaving your steaks at this temperature for so long increases your chance of food poisoning so make sure that you have ultra-fresh steaks that you obtained from a butcher you trust, and do not serve this steak to someone who is elderly or pregnant. In reality I have done this quite a few times with no problems, but then I have an excellent butcher who cuts the meat in front of me, and I keep the steak chilled until I am ready to cook.

Since the harmful bacteria would usually be introduced by handling, not infected animals, you could use a propane torch to do a light sear on the outside before your oven procedure, after which you could complete the sear if necessary. The sear from a torch won't go deep into the meat. It works for Creme Brulee and the same thing applies for meat.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
Hey whart, if you want even cooking on big steaks, and don't have SV equipment, I recommend slow roasting.

To slow roast a steak, turn your oven as low as it will go. Mine goes as low as 60C, which is good because I want the final temp in my steak to be 55C. I leave the door slightly open to lower the temperature further. It takes 3-4 hours for the steak to reach cooked temperature. Note that leaving your steaks at this temperature for so long increases your chance of food poisoning so make sure that you have ultra-fresh steaks that you obtained from a butcher you trust, and do not serve this steak to someone who is elderly or pregnant. In reality I have done this quite a few times with no problems, but then I have an excellent butcher who cuts the meat in front of me, and I keep the steak chilled until I am ready to cook.
Thanks Keith, perhaps we'll give that a go on the Aga. I usually do steak on the outdoor grill, but the Aga is wonderful for roasts; i'll need to check with my wife on what the temps are in the various ovens on it. It is the size of a small locomotive.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
Since you mentioned the Brazilian BBQ's, when in NYC you must go to Churrascaria Plataforma.

It's a food orgy and the best in New York.

http://www.churrascariaplataforma.com/
Gary, sidebar: since you get into NYC, you MUST go to Wu Liang Ye and eat some of the best chinese food around. It's spicy and if interested, I'll send you a PM with the suggested menu. You need to make reservations, the place is always packed. Killer.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
i was retracing atahualpa's steps through the ecuadorian highands and happened upon a thousands year old open air market in otavalo. I observed them eating what looked like rats on a stick, they called them "cuy" (guinea pig) they actually weren't bad. when in rome...

btw, agentine parrillada and brazilian churasco is a steak lovers fantasy come true. agentina is the last place they'd bbq man's best friend... bife de lomo (filet mignon) is so abundant its as common and nearly as inexpensive as eating a burger.
Yeah, I'm a wimp, I sorta draw the line at eating domesticated pets. However, I do like the occasional rabbit, and Joel Rubuchon does it marvelously at his Atelier style restaurants, which are now in many cities.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,684
174
1,150
what's an "Aga"
I'll send you a pic. It's an old cast iron stove with a glazed ceramic surface, famously referred to in old english novels, it stays on all the time, no dials or controls, warms the entire floor where located. you control cooking by moving the food from one oven to another, each is at a different proximity to the gas heating source. they are essentially assembled in situ, and weigh a ton. make a wolfe or stainless steel stove look tinny. They are still made.
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY
I'll send you a pic. It's an old cast iron stove with a glazed ceramic surface, famously referred to in old english novels, it stays on all the time, no dials or controls, warms the entire floor where located. you control cooking by moving the food from one oven to another, each is at a different proximity to the gas heating source. they are essentially assembled in situ, and weigh a ton. make a wolfe or stainless steel stove look tinny. They are still made.

I saw one of these being built once on tv in the owner's kitchen. The cast iron pieces are massive, and space between iron plates are filled with sand. There is no unfilled dead space in it. They really do weight almost a ton, depending on the size aga you get. The one in the photo is a big one.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Yep. If you buy it for the right price, I will throw in a gorgeous house.

I guess it ain't moving with ya then, eh?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,430
2,518
1,448
So the 9" x 9" cast iron plate arrive...nice and heavy but not too heavy. We will heat in oven, and then sear both sides of the steak at once. With the particular pan we've got, it can sear quite well, and allow us to do nice medium rare inside the way we like it. two min each side...take it off and let it cool for 5 minutes, then med heat for 7 minutes and done. Rock salt to finish off. Simple enough even i can remember how to do it! All this sous-vide stuff and constant flipping is quite cool...but way too difficult for me to remember. Steak is as far i get in cooking besides eating a salad...which for me is ripping open a head of lettuce and adding tomatoes, olives, corn, artichokes, anchovies, shrimp and freshly ground pepper...when i was single i ate that same salad every nite for dinner for about 2 years straight...
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing