Sonus Faber to build speakers in China

[LL21]

Lloyd, I have already ordered the Pass Labs XS300, XP30 and XP25. Supposed to take delivery some time in August. I have listened to the XP30 and XA100.5 extensively and really like the sound. Liked it with the Alexandrias too. Haven't heard the XS300 but the people at Pass are saying they're a game changer.

Congrats! Pass is great stuff by all accounts...i have never had the chance to hear them. Pls post when they arrive! And enjoy a sensational system!

 

[LL21]

Davey, I agree with you completely when it comes to ARC. Unfortunately, it took me a while and a lot of $$ to finally realize it.

Yes, I do have the Fenice. I prefer calling them that to The Sonus Faber.
My previous speaker was the Alexandria 2 and I loved them so I was a little hesitant going in. Had only seen pictures of the Sonus Faber and obviously hadn't listened to them prior to taking delivery. I've had Wilson speakers since the mid 80s. Watt/ Puppies, Grand Slamms and finally the Alexandrias. Certainly if I'm being honest, I made the change just to make a change. The Alexandria is a fantastic speaker and I could easily live with them for the rest of my life.

I had read a lot about the Fenice before I made my purchase. Many people saying they were disappointed with Sonus Faber because the speaker was just plain ugly and wasn't in line with the beauty of previous offerings. I gotta tell you, to my eyes, the speaker is absolutely beautiful! Fit and finish are second to none and despite being 700lbs don't seem as imposing in the room as the Alexandrias.

As for the sound, in my opinion, the bass is better defined than the Wilsons. I find image placement in the sound stage to be a little more solid. Voices, especially the female voice is incredible. Side to side, front to back, I would say the Sonus Faber and Alexandria are pretty close. I prefer the mid range of the Sonus Faber slightly over the Wilson and I think the very top end has a little less of an edge than the Alexandria. But, please don't take any of this as a slight against the Alexandria because I have nothing but great things to say about that speaker.

At the end of the day, I'm happy I made the change. I prefer the sound of The Sonus Faber. Even if I didn't, I figured it wouldn't be difficult to go back to the Alexandria. There are quite a few for sale out there.

Sounds incredible! i own the Slamms at the moment and love them. I have heard the Alexandria 1 and 2 and the XLF. I think your comments are similar to one or 2 people i've spoken to who have spent real time with the Fenice. They too loved the mids, and were stunned by how effortless it was and effortlessly articulate throughout the entire frequency range (which even the Strads are not).

 

[DaveyF]

Davey, I agree with you completely when it comes to ARC. Unfortunately, it took me a while and a lot of $$ to finally realize it.
.

Thank you, Frank. It seems that a lot of less experienced listener's buy ARC and then get upset when the gear needs more synergy and /or maintenance and adjusting than they are used to, in order to get the sound that we both know can be obtained. I have also noticed that ARC gear tends to illicit a 'love it or hate it' reaction in many of these same listeners, leading them to quickly give up on the gear and post to A'gon. Typically,these a'philes tend to 'churn' gear with no real idea as to what they are trying to ultimately accomplish. Not saying this applies to you, just saying.

 

[mep]

It seems that some inexperienced and experienced listeners feel that if you don’t love the gear they own then there must be something wrong with your system or your ears. They have the incessant need to be ‘right’ so therefore your thoughts, opinions, and experiences must be wrong-even when you have owned the same gear they currently have.

 

[Bulldogger]

The only think I like Chinese is the food.

I like the woman too. Flew a beautiful young lady, DJ for Shanghai radio station, over in 2000 to stay with me for 10 days. We had a spectacular time. I avoid made in China for political reasons. No problem with buying goods from other countries. When the young woman, arrived from China, she had a couple of movies with her on DVD. They were current movies they had just opened at the theater the previous week. She said the corner DVD shop sells them. I asked if they were hidden? She said no, why would they be hidden? All the DVD stores sell what I called, "bootleg," DVD and CDs openly. The DVD was a pristine copy.

It appears that much of what the Chinese do is outright theft. Products produced in that country are copied and then "bootlegged." An African friend once told me a story of how you catch a monkey. You place a piece of fruit in a gourd that has a narrow neck. When the monkey tries to retrieve the fruit with his clenched fist, he can not. All the monkey has to do is release the fruit but the greed of the monkey keeps him trapped there. His opinion is that American desire for cheap products, no matter what the true cost in currency manipulation and the theft of intellectual property is allowing the Chinese it make "monkeys," out of the world. He thinks the whole thing is amusing. No one disputes what the Chinese are doing but we still just can't keep our hands off the cheap goods. In the end, the Africans kill and eat the monkeys.

 

[caesar]

Hello Caesar

I am curious to where that opinion is coming from. My company has a factory in the Tianjin Free Trade Zone. I got to help set it up and help train the workers. Aside from the obvious issues with language once we got them up to speed and they knew what was expected they were fine. Just like here training them properly makes all the difference in the world. If the workmanship is an issue in a factory blame the management not the worker.


Rob

Rob,

My background is in applied economics and business. To answer your question, let's separate facts from opinions. It is a fact that Chinese wages are rising. If you read the Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, etc., these stories have been regular the last few years. (This is a great thing for the Chinese people, by the way.) You can run a google search to confirm these facts, or just click on the link.

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2011/04/05/chart-of-the-week-chinese-wage-inflation/#axzz21xtgQcmk

Now with the rising wages, if a company is primarily interested in low labor costs, they should probably look to Vietnam, Indonesia, Cambodia, etc., instead of China.

But, of course, a business must balance low labor costs with other issues such as worker training, quality, supply chain management, etc.

The bottom line is that if you are a small, high end company, you should probably avoid off shoring. This is not because of xenophobic, bigoted, or narrow minded reasons that many people who bring up the offshoring subject hold, but for sound economic reasons. If you are Apple and can control the entire factory, you can put your own process in place, you can have your own quality control. When you are huge, offshoring is a no brainer. But if you are a small or medium sized business without that kind of power that someone like Apple has, you’re just another customer. No one really cares about you. Imagine you are selling a $100K speaker in low volume to 100-500 of your best customers. All of a sudden you find out that some part was not available and a substitute part was used. Or something was not properly welded. Or that the Chinese factory has subcontracted your work to someone else without giving the subcontractor proper training. If you are David Wilson carrying a whip or an Alon Wolf holding a nut cracker, would you rather hop in your car and drive for 15 minutes or take a 24 hour flight to take action? These guys would rather sell at a higher price than deal with a bunch of unhappy customers. And with the higher Chinese wage rates, that price differential is definitely not worth the headache or risk to your company's reputation. For the low volume high end audio industry, it is better to keep manufacturing nearby.

 

[LL21]

The bottom line is that if you are a small, high end company, you should probably avoid off shoring. This is not because of xenophobic, bigoted, or narrow minded reasons that many people who bring up the offshoring subject hold, but for sound economic reasons. If you are Apple and can control the entire factory, you can put your own process in place, you can have your own quality control. When you are huge, offshoring is a no brainer. But if you are a small or medium sized business without that kind of power that someone like Apple has, you’re just another customer. No one really cares about you. Imagine you are selling a $100K speaker in low volume to 100-500 of your best customers. All of a sudden you find out that some part was not available and a substitute part was used. Or something was not properly welded. Or that the Chinese factory has subcontracted your work to someone else without giving the subcontractor proper training. If you are David Wilson carrying a whip or an Alon Wolf holding a nut cracker, would you rather hop in your car and drive for 15 minutes or take a 24 hour flight to take action? These guys would rather sell at a higher price than deal with a bunch of unhappy customers. And with the higher Chinese wage rates, that price differential is definitely not worth the headache or risk to your company's reputation. For the low volume high end audio industry, it is better to keep manufacturing nearby.

FWIW, i spoke with Stahl Tek and they do it all in Texas...they are part of Purist Audio. I suspect part of it is due to low volume, high price, a desire to control every element. They told me it would cost less 'in theory' to do it out of China...but they wish to ensure quality, make upgrades, etc all in-house on low production items which are hand built, wired, assembled by their own team. And for low productions...no sense and no desire to go out to China to do it.

 

[Robh3606]

Hello Caesar

The only point I was making is that Quality issues can be dealt with. There are ways around counterfeit parts. All you have to do is ship kits and not have them source from local suppliers. As far as you needing to be Apple that certainly is not true. We went in chose an empty building hired the management staff, trained them, helped them train the workers, helped them set up a quality system. They got themselves registered. They are all employee's and only manufacture our goods. So no issues with being bumped by a larger order, them not caring, or illegal part substitutions. As far as wages yes they are going up but most of the goods we manufacture there are for the Chinese market so it works quite well for us. What they do ship back gets inspected and tested with yields that are just as good as our own in-house manufacturing.

As far as a small company outsourcing or doing small order contract manufacturing I agree I would stay here in the US.

Rob

 

[caesar]

Hello Caesar

The only point I was making is that Quality issues can be dealt with. There are ways around counterfeit parts. All you have to do is ship kits and not have them source from local suppliers. As far as you needing to be Apple that certainly is not true. We went in chose an empty building hired the management staff, trained them, helped them train the workers, helped them set up a quality system. They got themselves registered. They are all employee's and only manufacture our goods. So no issues with being bumped by a larger order, them not caring, or illegal part substitutions. As far as wages yes they are going up but most of the goods we manufacture there are for the Chinese market so it works quite well for us. What they do ship back gets inspected and tested with yields that are just as good as our own in-house manufacturing.

As far as a small company outsourcing or doing small order contract manufacturing I agree I would stay here in the US.

Rob

Rob,

My father sets up manufacturing plants in Asia, so I am familiar with what you describe. When machines are sourced from US or Germany, parts are excellent, workers are properly trained, quality processes are in place, etc., many issues go away for big companies. Maybe one day high end audio companies can exercise the power of big companies. With a billion Chinese and a billion Indians coming out of poverty as we type, I hope they and many of the people in poor, emergent market countries in the world today become audiophiles. And I hope to live to see it.

Good luck to you