Solti Ring versions

[ChrisH]

I'm curious to know if any of the members here have A/B'd the Esoteric remasters vs the 2012 remaster?

I find the Esoteric remaster to be very good overall, minus some possible overloading of the analogue input with certain voices. There is also quite a bit of extraneous noise. Meaning I can hear the singers footsteps as they move through their blocking, and Solti's flopping around on the podium. It's insane to think that Culshaw didn't make them remove their shoes!

 

[Keith_W]

At one point Culshaw brought a horse to the stage as Birgit Nilsson was singing!

I think I am probably the only person on this forum who owns a copy of the Esoteric Remaster. There are after all, only 1000 of us and i'm one of the lucky ones Unfortunately I do not own a copy of the 2012 remaster. I am willing to A/B the two ... if there is someone on this forum who lives in Melbourne who owns a copy of the 2012 remaster. In any case, the answer to your question might be a little academic, since it is not possible to buy the Esoteric unless you are willing to pay an astronomical price to Amazon. And even then it may still not be possible.

I might be willing to let go of my copy if you could arrange a wild night of passion with a supermodel of my choice, though

 

[rbbert]

I have a PCM conversion of the Esoteric discs and the Bluray of the 2012 remaster. It's interesting to note that the Esoteric is apparently from a PCM 24/44.1 master, which must be the same master used for the 2012 remaster. They sound very similar; any differences I hear may be due to the extra DSD>PCM conversion.

 

[ChrisH]

I've got the Esoteric remaster, too.

Since you have the Esoteric, I'm going to bother you a bit.

One passage in question is the ActIII in Gotterdammerung. This is Hagen, the steerhorns and lots of Ho-Hoing. On my system, in my room, Hagen sounds incredibly direct, almost boring into your head with some added 'junk' thrown in. The junk, sounds like an overloading analogue input, or maybe excess reverb of the hall. There is something there. This also shows itself with Seigmund and Hunding in Act 1 of Walkure.

During the Rainbow Bridge scene in Rheingold, it sounds as if a herd of cattle is walking across the 'stage'.

BTW, your system looks sweet. Very nice room.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I have not heard the Esoteric. I do recall a discussion at Sa-cd.net comparing it to the Decca BD-A, and the Decca was considered slightly better than the Esoteric in DSD. I cannot find that thread, however. As I recall, the master tape used for both was 48k/24 digital, not analog, and the digital master version used by Decca supposedly had a better provenance.

I own the Decca BD-A, one of the CD remasterings and the original LPs, which I bought in the late 70's. To me, it has never sounded better than it does on the BD-A. Awesome performance and great sound. I do not think you can possibly go wrong with the Decca, especially since the Esoteric is rare and quite costly.

For those interested, also get The Golden Ring on BD, a wonderful 1965 BBC documentary about the making of Goetterdaemmerung. Seeing Nilsson, Windgassen, Fischer-Dieskau, Solti, the VPO, plus Culshaw, Parry, et al in action is priceless. Yes, the horse is led in as Nilsson is singing, much to her surprise.

 

[rbbert]

From the spectrum analysis, the PCM "master" used for both remasterings appears to be 24/44.1. FWIW, there are lots of places where there is what sounds like overload distortion, presumably from the original recordings.

 

[ChrisH]

The Esoteric and Decca BD-A are both derived from the same master. This master was produced in 1997 from the original tapes. The tapes were ran through CEDAR process for de-hissing, this caused a lot of the high frequency information to be cut. This master is 24/48.

I believe that Esoteric got the 1997 master, converted it back to analogue then did their thing in DSD. Esoteric will not say anything other than that. Decca is also being very coy with their information on what they did, other than to say that the original tapes couldn't be used and they took the Cedarized master and ran it through more modern tools. Too bad they didn't try to rework the original tapes using the modern tools available.

Regardless, the Esoteric is truly a 'theater of the mind' as Culshaw wanted it to be. Perhaps I'm being a bit to picky about things.

 

[rbbert]

The Esoteric and Decca BD-A are both derived from the same master. This master was produced in 1997 from the original tapes. The tapes were ran through CEDAR process for de-hissing, this caused a lot of the high frequency information to be cut. This master is 24/48...

I have read this as well. Nevertheless, frequency response spectrums of both versions show a steep "roll-off" (more like a wall) with nothing above about 22 kHz, strongly suggesting that the master is actually 24/44.1 rather than 24/48. The CEDAR process looks different on spectral analysis.

 

[ChrisH]

I have read this as well. Nevertheless, frequency response spectrums of both versions show a steep "roll-off" (more like a wall) with nothing above about 22 kHz, strongly suggesting that the master is actually 24/44.1 rather than 24/48. The CEDAR process looks different on spectral analysis.

I wonder why they don't label it 24/44.1 instead of the 24/48. Perhaps that's not hi-rez enough.

 

[rbbert]

I wonder why they don't label it 24/44.1 instead of the 24/48. Perhaps that's not hi-rez enough.

BD-Audio doesn't support 24/44.1 (unlike DVD-A), only sample rates that are multiples of 48 kHz.

 

[ChrisH]

BD-Audio doesn't support 24/44.1 (unlike DVD-A), only sample rates that are multiples of 48 kHz.

Learn something new everyday. Thanks.