Scaena install

[Avidlistener]

I just found this thread after being on this forum for years! I was obsessed with Scaena speakers when I was looking for a new speaker many years ago. I was quite happy when TAS started writing about them. While I absolutely loved the sound, and even got to hear Alan's personal system, the size/form factor just wasn't right for me, being in a NYC condo.

Like others, I am a bit surprised the speaker isn't discussed/written about more. They were just so impressive in every way, and a unique design that pays dividends. I've love to hear the latest incarnation some day.

 

[MRJAZZ]

It’s a possibility but will make the setup more complex.

Another option is to buy two smaller amplified subwoofers. 13-16 inches. I love SVS Ultra subwoofers for their endless tweaking with the app. I already have a SVS SB16 Ultra. I put it for sale lately but maybe I should wait in case I want to try it with the Scaena towers. If it’s much better than the original 18’s I could consider buying another SB16 Ultra or two SB4000 with 13.5 inches drivers. I had the 4000 before the 16 and it was faster and blended better with my now sold Focal Electra 1038. I switched for the 16 for HT duties.

My experiment with the upcoming Crown XTI 4002 and his superior DSP will dictate the path of my journey.

One thing for sure, these Scaena are keepers for sure. Perfect bass or not.

Recommend you try your suggestion of utilizing some SVS subs. Four of the 3000 model using a 13" driver should work, and they are very "clean", well past the 110HZ cutoff of the main line array. They should blend very well with the main array, and their software app is excellent. If finances permit, perhaps a stack like the Rel Six Pack might be an option ( using the SVS 3000, you could even go with a stack of four per side.....or more....food for thought.)
Cheers

 

[LL21]

Recommend you try your suggestion of utilizing some SVS subs. Four of the 3000 model using a 13" driver should work, and they are very "clean", well past the 110HZ cutoff of the main line array. They should blend very well with the main array, and their software app is excellent. If finances permit, perhaps a stack like the Rel Six Pack might be an option ( using the SVS 3000, you could even go with a stack of four per side.....or more....food for thought.)
Cheers

Hi Mr Jazz

What is your own professional view of the REL 6-pack vs an all-out assault dual-opposed single sub with the SAME dispersion/air movement capability? Do you believe that if the distortion levels are around the same between the 2 setups that they should have equal chance at best performance. Or is there something in the stacking (and ability to adjust each crossover/volume level of the 3-stack) that gives it an advantage? What advantage would that be?

REL speaks over crossover settings going up each level along with a lower volume (so floor level crossed over at 40hz, then mid level 50hz and then upper stack at perhaps 60hz crossover).

Any insights would be most welcome!

 

[Gregadd]

 

[thomask]

Scaena is the most underated speaker.

I also play Boogie Str by Leonard Cohen.

Please note that I play Scaena pair of 18 inch subwoofers tandem with two Rel 31 subwoofers.

I will also give my opinion on Rel 31 subwoofers soon.

Rel 31 is very musical subwoofer.

 

[Gregadd]

For some reason it is ignored.

 

[thomask]

For some reason it is ignored.

Not enough publicity and only expensive top models beyond means of ordinary folks.

 

[thomask]

I also play Six blades knife played at Axpona to my enjoyment.

As I like MBL, Asylvox and few other efficient horn speakers, i am happy with Scaena overall with nice soundstage and no distortion using many drivers in line array.

Pair of Rel 31 subwoofers also work well with Scaena.

 

[LL21]

Scaena is the most underated speaker.

I also play Boogie Str by Leonard Cohen.

Please note that I play Scaena pair of 18 inch subwoofers tandem with two Rel 31 subwoofers.

I will also give my opinion on Rel 31 subwoofers soon.

Rel 31 is very musical subwoofer.

Great! I would particularly like to understand what the addition of 2 big subs does relative to your already big Scaena subs.

The reason is that I am thinking about going 'all out' on sub-40hz territory to create ambience, hall, depth, space and 'weight'...and am trying to understand the implications of what a huge amount of controlled air displacement does (ie, does it actually do what I am intending?).

You have done this (as has Infinite Baffled with his 4 x DD18+ subs on his Focal Utopias.)

 

[Gregadd]

Not enough publicity and only expensive top models beyond means of ordinary folks.

true dat. Thus price may be dated but @$90-140k with 2-4 woofer stack it fits nicely within Wilson/Magico competitors.

 

[thomask]

Great! I would particularly like to understand what the addition of 2 big subs does relative to your already big Scaena subs.

The reason is that I am thinking about going 'all out' on sub-40hz territory to create ambience, hall, depth, space and 'weight'...and am trying to understand the implications of what a huge amount of controlled air displacement does (ie, does it actually do what I am intending?).

You have done this (as has Infinite Baffled with his 4 x DD18+ subs on his Focal Utopias.)

It is only five days since I added Rel 31 to Scaena 3.2

After doing enough adjustment, I will give more detailed opinion.

But pair of Rel 31 seems to be working fine.

 

[thomask]

Great! I would particularly like to understand what the addition of 2 big subs does relative to your already big Scaena subs.

The reason is that I am thinking about going 'all out' on sub-40hz territory to create ambience, hall, depth, space and 'weight'...and am trying to understand the implications of what a huge amount of controlled air displacement does (ie, does it actually do what I am intending?).

You have done this (as has Infinite Baffled with his 4 x DD18+ subs on his Focal Utopias.)

I will be able to give definite answers to your question by Friday.

 

[LL21]

I will be able to give definite answers to your question by Friday.

Fantastic! Very very exciting. Very few audiophiles have gone in steps to extreme bass. Very few have done extreme bass, I think...and of those who have it, few have done it in increments. So your experience will be particularly interesting to me. Thank you.

 

[Elliot G.]

Fantastic! Very very exciting. Very few audiophiles have gone in steps to extreme bass. Very few have done extreme bass, I think...and of those who have it, few have done it in increments. So your experience will be particularly interesting to me. Thank you.

 

[Elliot G.]

Fantastic! Very very exciting. Very few audiophiles have gone in steps to extreme bass. Very few have done extreme bass, I think...and of those who have it, few have done it in increments. So your experience will be particularly interesting to me. Thank you.

try these , you will see what real bass sounds like Lloyd. They will be in Munich.

 

[LL21]

Thank you! The question is, like the REL 6-pack, have you/Goebel experimented with a 6-pack of these? THAT is what I am looking to investigate...what happens when you move THAT much air, well controlled/dialed-in, etc? If we think about the really huge speakers (Divin Majestic, Rockport Arrakis, Magico M9, Wilson WAMM, Tidal La Assoluta), their upper and mid cone coverage is about the same as the big speakers (Wilson XLF, Focal Grand Utopia EM, etc)...but their bass delivery usually involves dual 15", dual 18", stand alone towers (Genesis Ones, Gryphon Pendragon, etc)

Do you have any experience with this? While I have little doubt that dual 18" as designed by Goebel are phenomenal...I genuinely do think about the sheer air displacement that occurs when it is 4-6 of these in a room. For example, legend has it that Dan D'Agostino used 6 of his dual-15" Krell Master Ref Subs with his big Wilson X1s at one point to really see what the overall sound system could do.

 

[matakana]

Thank you! The question is, like the REL 6-pack, have you/Goebel experimented with a 6-pack of these? THAT is what I am looking to investigate...what happens when you move THAT much air, well controlled/dialed-in, etc? If we think about the really huge speakers (Divin Majestic, Rockport Arrakis, Magico M9, Wilson WAMM, Tidal La Assoluta), their upper and mid cone coverage is about the same as the big speakers (Wilson XLF, Focal Grand Utopia EM, etc)...but their bass delivery usually involves dual 15", dual 18", stand alone towers (Genesis Ones, Gryphon Pendragon, etc)

Do you have any experience with this? While I have little doubt that dual 18" as designed by Goebel are phenomenal...I genuinely do think about the sheer air displacement that occurs when it is 4-6 of these in a room. For example, legend has it that Dan D'Agostino used 6 of his dual-15" Krell Master Ref Subs with his big Wilson X1s at one point to really see what the overall sound system could do.

Hello LL21
Do you know of Arendal subwoofers ? I can highly recommend the 1723 range, the 2s are dual apposed, they do a 60 day trial and are priced really sharply. Very good for music and work superbly with antimode. Evenly spaced around your room maybe the way to go rather than stacked. You could start with a pair first. The dual drivers in the 2s model are equivalent to a 21 inch single driver.

 

[LL21]

Thank you. Believe it or not, I am considering a very customized dual-opposing 24" all-carbon fibre cone sub which is specifically designed for sub-40hz performance and has the air displacement of approximately 6 x Velodyne DD18+ or so. Something that effortlessly moves air down to 10hz with low distortion and certainly has negligible distortion at 20hz at any sane level of volume at 2m in an open field let alone a room.

Not to go churn internal organs but to create very high quality, low distortion sense of ambience, hall and space and to enable real orchestral compositions and recordings the ability to 'breathe'. I might even trial using the Wilson Crossover to reduce the XLF output below 28hz - 38hz to see what happens with the main speakers while this sub takes over.

A lot of learning to do and discussing with professionals, but that is where my current thinking lies.

 

[thomask]

I think the weakness of Scaena speakers lie on their subwoofers.

They are not bad but just decent not justifying its high price.

After I set it up with Rel 31 subwoofers, even piano sounds more real.

Rel subwoofers seems to mate well with Scaena so that it can make Scaena my last speaker.

Whole system sounds much more dynamic with wider and deeper soundstage.

Please note that two Scaena sealed 18 inch subwoofers are being used togerther with pair of Rel 31 subwoofers.

What I like main tower of Scaena is no distortion due to use of many drivers and separate chamber for each mid range driver.

Mid range drivers does not go through any passive network thus 12 of them works as full range speaker.

Scaena :: Iso-Linear Array :: Technology

Online source for high-end Iso Linear Array Speakers

scaena.com

 

[thomask]

Thank you. Believe it or not, I am considering a very customized dual-opposing 24" all-carbon fibre cone sub which is specifically designed for sub-40hz performance and has the air displacement of approximately 6 x Velodyne DD18+ or so. Something that effortlessly moves air down to 10hz with low distortion and certainly has negligible distortion at 20hz at any sane level of volume at 2m in an open field let alone a room.

Not to go churn internal organs but to create very high quality, low distortion sense of ambience, hall and space and to enable real orchestral compositions and recordings the ability to 'breathe'. I might even trial using the Wilson Crossover to reduce the XLF output below 28hz - 38hz to see what happens with the main speakers while this sub takes over.

A lot of learning to do and discussing with professionals, but that is where my current thinking lies.

If 24 inch subwoofers are slow, they may not make good match with XLF.

Since Rel give very generous refund within 60 days trial, you may try pair of Rel 24's to see what happen.