Sadurni Acoustics horns - any thoughts?

[bonzo75]

While it indeed might be better I just find passing such judgements without listening to a speaker a bit pointless, vs another speaker heard 5 years ago, especially given the points being raised regarding 15-sec evaluations on Peter's controversial thread

 

[spiritofmusic]

Of course Bonzo. No way am I buying before listening, for a good period of time. I am after all making the big trip to NYC to do so. But I find it most interesting that a guy very familiar w/horns (he is building a pair himself) just went onto the Sadurni website for the first time, and pretty much gave a thumbs up to many of their design choices. He has heard the Trios/Basshorns G2's, and Animas many times, and feel both are flawed in design/tech choices, and overall sound quality. He made absolutely no comment on Sadurni sound, just felt many things were interesting about what he saw in their publicity.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Guys, I've had criticism privately that I'm trashing competitors to Sadurni, and that I'm somehow biased twds them. I've taken the unusual step of asking the moderators to close this thread down, or at the least admonish me, if they agree. Similarly I would welcome open criticism of me from others if it's truly believed unreasonable favouritism is being displayed by me. But I will stick up for myself.
I would like to put the record straight, I haven't heard them, they are somewhat out of my price range, and I would have to take a transatlantic flight to hear them. I find it hard to see how I can be biased twds what remains a pretty impractical proposition. I relay what I consider reasonable enthusisam twds interesting technical and engineering choices, and then posted spontaneous thoughts from an audio guy who has designed tube amps and horns, who had never come across Sadurni before. I've been pretty positive twds my AG Duo and Trio experiences, mentioning some caveats. Is this really so unreasonable?
I will hold my hands up and admit to being overly critical of Animas, and I apologise to Jack of BD Audio, and Manolis of Tune Audio if this seems a hatcchet job. Not my intention. This is the last you'll ever hear of me discussing them.
From now on, if this thread continues, I'd like to stick to Sadurni info/comments. I admit guilt re talking about a product I haven't heard, the main point of starting this thread was really to get others w/first hand experience to chip in. I remain a little frustrated so few owners have made their experiences known.

 

[marslo]

SOM,
In my opinion you are very transparent in your approach to Sadurni. It is very hard to speak about the product itself without refering to competitiors esp when the producer has no distribution in our countries. Only in comparison with our experiences and different designs we may have a better understanding of these horns.
I already asked on our polish forum if anyone have had the opportunity to audition Sadurni, so far no answers. I am very interested in your findings from the visit in NYC.

 

[spiritofmusic]

There is a real lack of owner comments. But then again there is on almost all the gear I own - v.little on Nat and Soundmith, close to nothing on Trans Fi, Eera, Zu, Sablon, Symposium, Spatial Computer. Some on Shun Mook. Plenty on Entreq. Proof of the pudding will be in the eating/hearing.
Waiting for some time to free up at work to get to NYC. Additionally I'm making my final mods to my Zu Def 4 spkrs (Duelund tweeter caps/Lundahl sub amp transformers/new top of the line Sablon ic's, pc's and spkr cbls/Entreq grounding to these new Lundahls), to make a final optimised comparison of my Zus at their very best v the potential New Pretenders.

 

[Argonaut]

Marc, for my part I do not see your comments, thus far, regarding the Anima Horns to be anything other than your own honest and considered opinion, based for the most part, upon a personal dealer demonstration of the product, and most certainly does not appear to me to be the construct of any Machiavellian Agenda on your part.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marslo and Harlequin, thanx for your input. To those skeptical of my intentions, rest assured if I do indeed get to hear the Sadurnis, and after extensive trial (no "15 second man" here, re Peter Breuniger thread) they really don't live up to expectations and don't float my boat, I will endeavour to be honest but fair, as I believe I do most of the time on other gear.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi, can I clarify, it was I who told him in an offline chat, and I thank Marc for not mentioning my name, but that is fine, let me explain what I was saying, which has upset Marc.

1. Actually, I agreed Marc has experience with Animas and that is one thing he can say, that he did not like A, B, C, and D about them. Like Bill has done.
2. It is quite okay discussing design differences in crossovers.
3. I am all for the interest shown and the design discussions

4. However, it is quite another thing for him to say, given his design expertise is minimal (like mine), to imply that Animas crossover design cannot work (His actual words are I don't see how their crossover can be justified).

5. I thought it an unfair thing to state that a speaker he has not yet heard is probably better than a speaker he has heard 5 years ago (he heard the Trios 5 years ago without the bass horns)

On another thread Lloyd too expressed interest in Aries Cerat horn, very positively. But didn't go on to say that based on his limited understanding of the design, it is better than speaker A and B (far less speaker B being one he heard 5 years ago).

This was interesting especially in the context of Peter's thread which where the general consensus seems to be we take more responsibility while being negative on other brands. According to me it is quite appropriate if Spirit (SOM), after listening to the Sadurnis, and the Trios again, says the Sadurnis are (fill in the blanks) compared to Trios. But not yet. And to me to say a design cannot work is quite wrong unless you are a good designer yourself (or Romy the Cat).

Finally, this was meant to be private and not public, but if you guys (and the mods) think I have been unfair to SOM, quite happy to apologize.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Ked, I plead fully guilty to charge 4. As per my promise, I retract this charge and comment no further.
Charge 5 is unfounded, and you need to re read my words. I didn't say probably better. I just said that the Sadurni design/tech/material choices were interesting, and that an unsolicited, spontaneeous comment FROM SOMEONE WHO BUILDS TUBE AMPS AND HORNS gave Sadurni choices a thumbs up from the theoretical POV. Nothing in my discussion is dissing AG - or are we to say I can't compliment them w/caveats?
How can I say the Sadurnis ARE PROBABLY better? I haven't heard them, and the point of this thread was to draw attention to them. Plenty of non Sadurni interested parties have contributed, leading to an opening up of discussing other competitors.
Ked, reread what I say about Trios and Duos, aka read the story, not just the headlines.

 

[bonzo75]

I was just taking back my old Audion amps from the repair shop, and happened to talk about the Sadurnis esp wrt Trios/Basshorns G2's. My repair guy has a lot to say about horns, and very much liked the Sadurnis, esp the ability to time align the drivers which he feels is essential due the depth of horns (a Sadurni selling point), contended the labyrinth backwave/Tapped Horn principle of the Sadurni subs was v. interesting, was in favour of mdf instead of plastic, and actually wasn't a great fan of the tweeter choice in the Trios.
My final choice in horns (if I move from the Zus) is coming down to a straight decision btwn the Sadurnis and AG Trios/Basshorns G2's, and despite the logical choice being Trios, my instinct is the Sadurnis may be superior, at least where interesting tech choices are concerned.

"my instinct is the Sadurnis may be superior"

Nothing to do with the repair guy

 

[Steve Williams]

informative thread guys but seems you're all starting to nit pick. Perhaps tone down the personal attacks or let me know if I should close the thread. I thought you guys were all friends

 

[bonzo75]

I think everyone gets self righteous here and likes to stand for freedom, right and wrong. For example, I like to think it's wrong to publicly state A better than B without listening properly

 

[Argonaut]

"my instinct is the Sadurnis may be superior"

Nothing to do with the repair guy

b75, I have no Canine in this one, however that quote is a LoooooonG way from "my belief is the Sadurnis Are/Will be superior"

 

[bonzo75]

b75, I have no Canine in this one, however that quote is a LoooooonG way from "my belief is the Sadurnis Are/Will be superior"

Possibly I misread it too strongly while reading it

 

[bonzo75]

Great post on Amir here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ough-is-enough&p=321232&viewfull=1#post321232

 

[bonzo75]

Btw, I did find someone who has heard both, and prefers the Sadurnis over the trios by a large margin. Will wait for him to post here

 

[flez007]

Just aware of this thread.....

i have heard the Sadurni horns EXTENSiVELY - (disclaimer: I know Jorge for many years and admire his company's work and passion a lot) and I have had AG UNOs and heard the TRIOS (early edition) in my room for a quite extensive time. As for Cessaros, just heard them at shows and don't feel safe to express my comments on them.

To my ears, there is no contest between the UNOs and TRIOs compared to the Stocattos, I respect and like the AG line but, in my case and in my system, I could not resolve the speed mismatch (I call it that way) between the bass modules and the horns, which always showed a little horn-sound on complicated material.

The Stocattos just disapear in the room, no horn-sound whatsoever, and the speed, attack and tone are just great.

Why I don't own a pair yet? I do think it is a matter of time

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks. Like I said in the PM did they have bass horns, and was it midrange that you preferred, or the scale, bass, stage, and dynamics, because the trios are something to beat when they are with bass horns in that regard

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bonzo, is Flez007 the listener you referred to? Thanks if you encouraged him to post. This is what I have been hoping for, someone w/reasonable experience in hearing the Sadurnis, in relation to other designs.
Re the "speed mismatch" you highlight, the company seem to be v. proud of their labyrinth backwave Tapped Horns principle on their subs, and claim it offers weight and speed/agility to keep up w/the rest of the horns.
Flez007, can you elaborate a little further on different aspects of Sadurnis' sound? Thanx for your time.

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo, is Flez007 the listener you referred to? Thanks if you encouraged him to post. This is what I have been hoping for, someone w/reasonable experience in hearing the Sadurnis, in relation to other designs.
Re the "speed mismatch" you highlight, the company seem to be v. proud of their labyrinth backwave Tapped Horns principle on their subs, and claim it offers weight and speed/agility to keep up w/the rest of the horns.
Flez007, can you elaborate a little further on different aspects of Sadurnis' sound? Thanx for your time.

I had actually sent him a PM around a month ago when you first texted me about Sadurni but had no comparison available. I think he just logged on today.