Room roar and the cringe factor.

[DaveyF]

I just finished reading REG's Absolute Sound review of the JansZen zA2.1 speakers. In the review he mentions a couple of interesting terms: Room roar and the cringe factor! "Room roar" is apparently when one hears the room being overloaded ( I think)
"The cringe factor" is when a speaker begins to distort as the volume goes up( again, I think). Anyhow, these terms are interesting to some extent, I can understand and somewhat relate to what REG is trying to get across with his descriptors. However, I'm not sure that I would always ascertain cringe factor to a speaker's distortion...I have heard cringe factor with many speakers that were NOT distorting as they ascended in volume, and I have heard room roar in VERY large rooms that were NOT overloaded..sometimes for the better and sometimes not....


What's your understanding of room roar and the cringe factor?

 

[cjfrbw]

I thought at Absolute Sound, the cringe factor was when the manufacturer of very expensive equipment refused to grant long term habeas equipmentus to the reviewer free of charge and/or until the reviewer got tired of them or got a better deal.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I think room roar and cringe factor are probably another set of audiophile descriptors that, if they catch on, will mean different things to different people until they ultimately come to communicate almost nothing. What does it mean for a room to be overloaded? What is the cause? What is the measurable effect? The perceived effect? That information, in layman's language, would be useful. "Room roar" is not.

Tim

 

[cpp]

Room roar, a poorly designed room/home. Cringe factor a wife that is pissed off that you actually bought a poorly designed home.

 

[valkyrie]

Tim,

To my ears "overloading" a room means that you have turned the volume up to a point where the music begins to sound strained and muddled. Many possible reasons; your amps have run out of gas (most do); your speaker drivers are past their linear region and are beginning to distort; your room has so many reflections that at a high volume they begin to interfere with the sound waves coming from the speaker.

There is another "audiophile" term (audiophile term is Urdu and means "vague and without form or content) that I would like to introduce; "room lock" which I define as that volume setting where your speakers and associated gear are filling your room with the sound of music - as intensely as possible. Lower than this and you want to turn the thing "up"; higher and you are in "overload" - and the usual suspects apply to both conditions.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,

To my ears "overloading" a room means that you have turned the volume up to a point where the music begins to sound strained and muddled. Many possible reasons; your amps have run out of gas (most do); your speaker drivers are past their linear region and are beginning to distort; your room has so many reflections that at a high volume they begin to interfere with the sound waves coming from the speaker.

There is another "audiophile" term (audiophile term is Urdu and means "vague and without form or content) that I would like to introduce; "room lock" which I define as that volume setting where your speakers and associated gear are filling your room with the sound of music - as intensely as possible. Lower than this and you want to turn the thing "up"; higher and you are in "overload" - and the usual suspects apply to both conditions.

Thanks, Valkyrie, I get that. Not sure I experience it the same way though. In that regard, it's right in there with the concept of "every recording has its perfect volume." I experience appropriate volume as a function of mood, more than anything else. Does my system have it's limits? Of course, but my room is small and my active speakers have lots of headroom, so I think I probably experience room limits a lot more often than system limits. And fortunately, I don't experience those often, because I pretty rarely find myself in the mood for really high volume.

Tim

 

[valkyrie]

I think my most likely culprit is that my amps are running out of gas. I have inefficient speakers (either 80dB or 84 dB depending on whom you read and believe) and only a 100 watts or so per side. The amps (solid state of course) are very solid performers (Odyssey Audio - Klaus Bunge kitchen table builder extraordinaire) - but after about 10:30 on the volume knob I think the thing is clipping - on at least some transients.

I have done the "Roger Sanders" test, where you place a scope lead on the + terminal of your speaker cables - and as Roger pointed out you can see the limit line pretty clearly on the scope. It is as if there is a ceiling on the scope display. So the amps - while very solid and musical - are just limited.

My new direction is a nicely used Pass X250.5 - that should allow me to "turn it up". Though the wife is already complaining that I play too loud.

But there is something about sitting down with a glass of good Scotch (Laphroaig or Langavulin), having had a relaxing smoke and just blasting away. Like live music - I like the stuff pretty loud. Though I do agree that some recordings are more encouraging to loud than others. Such sure sounds good ;-)). I would like to find out if my "room lock" is amp driven or room driven.

 

[Al M.]

I think room roar and cringe factor are probably another set of audiophile descriptors that, if they catch on, will mean different things to different people until they ultimately come to communicate almost nothing. What does it mean for a room to be overloaded? What is the cause? What is the measurable effect? The perceived effect? That information, in layman's language, would be useful. "Room roar" is not.

Tim

I would guess "room roar" primarily would describe distorting room reflections. But I agree that terms like "room roar" and "room lock" are unfortunate fashion terms that should have no place in the audiophile vocabulary. Especially the meaningless term "room lock" positively induces a 'cringe factor' in me as a scientist, and wants me to ask for the key...

 

[mep]

I think that Davey has just misinterpreted what REG said in his review. REGs comment about "room roar" was related to the Janzen speakers not putting a lot of high-frequency information into the room. In his own words, REG said: ""Room roar," as I call all that irrelevant sound bouncing around, is minimal." His comment about "cringe" was directly related to "room roar" and not to the speaker distorting. Anyway, REG just made up the term "room roar" to describe what he hears at his house. Looking at pictures of REG's room, I'm surprised that every speaker doesn't cause "room roar." I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

If we want the term "room roar" to come into the audiophile lexicon (and I don't), I would say anytime your room is singing along with the music you are putting more sound into your room than your room is capable of sustaining cleanly. With regards to "cringe," I can think of lots of things that will make you cringe when you listen to music and most of those reasons would be speaker related and not room related.

 

[valkyrie]

I would guess "room roar" primarily would describe distorting room reflections. But I agree that terms like "room roar" and "room lock" are unfortunate fashion terms that should have no place in the audiophile vocabulary. Especially the meaningless term "room lock" positively induces a 'cringe factor' in me as a scientist, and wants me to ask for the key...

Simple - don't use the term if it bothers you. While you at it - don't take yourself so seriously. Jeez if I want to use that term what is the harm?

 

[Andre Marc]

I think that Davey has just misinterpreted what REG said in his review. REGs comment about "room roar" was related to the Janzen speakers not putting a lot of high-frequency information into the room. In his own words, REG said: ""Room roar," as I call all that irrelevant sound bouncing around, is minimal." His comment about "cringe" was directly related to "room roar" and not to the speaker distorting. Anyway, REG just made up the term "room roar" to describe what he hears at his house. Looking at pictures of REG's room, I'm surprised that every speaker doesn't cause "room roar." I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

If we want the term "room roar" to come into the audiophile lexicon (and I don't), I would say anytime your room is singing along with the music you are putting more sound into your room than your room is capable of sustaining cleanly. With regards to "cringe," I can think of lots of things that will make you cringe when you listen to music and most of those reasons would be speaker related and not room related.

I agree with your second paragraph.

And yes, his room, actually more so his set up, is laughable.

 

[DaveyF]

I thought at Absolute Sound, the cringe factor was when the manufacturer of very expensive equipment refused to grant long term habeas equipmentus to the reviewer free of charge and/or until the reviewer got tired of them or got a better deal.

That is indeed another way of looking at the cringe factor, LOL.
BTW, reading REG's review again, I think he definitely made up some interesting descriptors with these terms...still NOT sure that he described the effects that well. One could probably misinterpret what he was trying to get across easily. Which would leave me to state that his descriptor's are therefore too prone to misinterpretation. I have to hand it to the likes of HP and others, writing about one's experiences with sound and how said sound impacts the listener is certainly NOT the easiest thing to do.

 

[thedudeabides]

Tim,

To my ears "overloading" a room means that you have turned the volume up to a point where the music begins to sound strained and muddled. Many possible reasons; your amps have run out of gas (most do); your speaker drivers are past their linear region and are beginning to distort; your room has so many reflections that at a high volume they begin to interfere with the sound waves coming from the speaker.

There is another "audiophile" term (audiophile term is Urdu and means "vague and without form or content) that I would like to introduce; "room lock" which I define as that volume setting where your speakers and associated gear are filling your room with the sound of music - as intensely as possible. Lower than this and you want to turn the thing "up"; higher and you are in "overload" - and the usual suspects apply to both conditions.

Very good description. Volume level is key from my experience.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Simple - don't use the term if it bothers you. While you at it - don't take yourself so seriously. Jeez if I want to use that term what is the harm?

On the other hand, if there is no broadly accepted meaning of the term and its definitions and uses are personal, unless you're talking to yourself, what is the good?

Tim

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I have a hard enough time trying to decipher established terms in the high-end as being meaningful in my application (system). I know what "black background" means, but I'm not likely to experience it in my setup...as such, I don't concern myself much with it. I think I'll stay away entirely from even trying to guess what "Room roar and cringe factor" truly mean.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

We need a new thread called "thread roar" or "thread cringe factor". I would rename this one cringe factor.

 

[DaveyF]

We need a new thread called "thread roar" or "thread cringe factor". I would rename this one cringe factor.

You should start a thread called "thread roar", LOL.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

You should start a thread called "thread roar", LOL.

LOL...It would likely only gets merged back into this one!