Record Cleaning Machines

[MilkMan]

Doh, I should have known! ...UltraSound of course.

...But what' bout 'Distilled Water'? :b

Try some vinegar on it Bobby...

 

[Soundproof]

The DIYAudio forum that SoundProof linked to (and links from that) has a huge amount of detail.

Ultrasound does not clean by chemical action. It cleans using millions of bubbles exploding. Like throwing a depth charge at a submarine.

That thread also has a good "work in progress" feel. The first poster can't be said to be a mechanical planning genius, the contraption has a Rube Goldberg feel to it, but then the concept is developed, and the links to the efforts of others are interesting to follow. By the end, one has a thorough notion of what's possible, as well as varied experiences with both the efficacy and the potential risks of ultrasound cleaning.
Most people objecting are using the experiences from industrial ultrasound cleaning of tankers and pipes as a caveat against the gentle transducers used in vinyl cleaning, which makes no sense, of course.

I wouldn't hesitate to trust my most expensive vinyl to the Audio Desk unit.

 

[MylesBAstor]

That thread also has a good "work in progress" feel. The first poster can't be said to be a mechanical planning genius, the contraption has a Rube Goldberg feel to it, but then the concept is developed, and the links to the efforts of others are interesting to follow. By the end, one has a thorough notion of what's possible, as well as varied experiences with both the efficacy and the potential risks of ultrasound cleaning.
Most people objecting are using the experiences from industrial ultrasound cleaning of tankers and pipes as a caveat against the gentle transducers used in vinyl cleaning, which makes no sense, of course.

I wouldn't hesitate to trust my most expensive vinyl to the Audio Desk unit.

Ever see the plans for the predecessor of the KM machine in JAES? Now there was a real Rube Goldberg!

 

[NorthStar]

See the last video about the machine

The US importer/distributor demos the machine in the last video. I asked for a sample and will report on it.

Peter, I also like the CD edge-cutter machine. ...From that same video.

* I file mine by hand. ...Only the ones in need of course.

 

[Bill Hart]

I've been using the VPI 16.5 almost since it came out, i think. My machine has got to be what- 22 years old? I'm pretty good with it, keep extra vacuum tubes on hand, clean the tube with a toothbrush [insert dumb joke] and use the Walker fluids and his applicator brushes. The VPI is an ear drum wrecker though and it is work to do more than a few records at a time. Also, I don't change vaccum brushes for each fluid bath, so theoretically, the enzyme gets sucked up, then, the cleaning fluid, then the ultra pure water, all by the same tube.
I love the build quality of the Oddysey. My one question relates to how you use these Keith Monks string-style machines with multiple fluids? I thought they had a fluid reservoir; do you just ignore that and do it manually?
The Autodesk sounds like the ticket. If my VPI would only die..... [thing is going to outlive me].

 

[mep]

I too use the 16.5 and I clean the applicator brush and the tube with a toothbrush I bought just for that application. Since I switched from VPI's cleaning fluid to the MF fluid, I'm really happy with the performance of the RCM. My records look like new after I clean them. I agree with how much racket this thing makes though.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I've been using the VPI 16.5 almost since it came out, i think. My machine has got to be what- 22 years old? I'm pretty good with it, keep extra vacuum tubes on hand, clean the tube with a toothbrush [insert dumb joke] and use the Walker fluids and his applicator brushes. The VPI is an ear drum wrecker though and it is work to do more than a few records at a time. Also, I don't change vaccum brushes for each fluid bath, so theoretically, the enzyme gets sucked up, then, the cleaning fluid, then the ultra pure water, all by the same tube.
I love the build quality of the Oddysey. My one question relates to how you use these Keith Monks string-style machines with multiple fluids? I thought they had a fluid reservoir; do you just ignore that and do it manually?
The Autodesk sounds like the ticket. If my VPI would only die..... [thing is going to outlive me].

Actually you hit on one of my sore points with the current SOTA RCM machines like the Monks, Loricraft, VPI etc. Many people use two (or more) fluids, yet manufacturers insist on releasing machines that will only hold one fluid (complained about this in my VPi Typhoon review too!). The only machine to my knowledge that lets you use two fluids is the Odyssey machine!

 

[rockitman]

I getting one of these...Auto Desk Systeme.
http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsAudioDeskVinylClnr.html

The dayz of PIA record cleaners...vacuum/turntable style are over....at least for me....

 

[Gregadd]

 

[Tonepub]

The Loricraft is a great machine. I enjoyed mine, but since this is work, not a hobby, I'm always looking for a way to streamline the process and the Audio Desk does that for me. With the Loricraft or VPI, I was able to clean a handful of records per day, because I had to stop what ever I was doing to attend to the machine. With the Audio Desk, I'm able to multitask pretty effectively and as mentioned earlier, the records come out clean and dry.

If I were doing this as strictly a hobby and only cleaned the occasional record, I probably couldn't justify the cost for one of these.

But it's helped my workflow tremendously, and my records have never sounded better.

 

[rockitman]

Other than convenience, the best thing it does is deliver 100% static free records. I was not able to achieve that with vacuum turntable types. If there is serious gunk or haze, I have found it doesn't do a great job. For those records, I do them by hand with a disc doctor brush and scrub them on micro towels on the table using whatever solution you choose. I then wipe them and finish them in the auto desk.

 

[cjfrbw]

Looks like hours and hours of OC disorder fun. I think I thought I saw a germ infested with viruses on the "after" shots. Need to clean it a few times, again.

 

[Gregadd]

Equal Time

 

[Tonepub]

Good call there, Rockitman. I actually have been thinking about grabbing another VPI 16.5 just to handle the records I get like that, though I don't get too many these days. Let the enzymes soak and do their thing, then a second blast on the Audio Desk. Now it's getting complicated again!

 

[Tubedoctor]

i use the hannl mera and i m really satisfied with it.

 

[CT0wens]

I also use a Hannl -- specifically, the Micro EL. The ability to change the platter speed and reverse direction -- as well as variable suction -- are all useful features. Hannl's new(ish) Circular Brush (Rundbürste) is an ingenious piece of engineering and can be retrofitted to any Hannl machine (which is my plan). IMHO, this brand does not get enough attention and is generally under-appreciated versus much of the category. Talk about a machine that was built to last -- including upgrades. Cheers.

 

[Bill Hart]

Curious to know what fluids you use with the Hanni machines, since the bigger ones look like they incorporate fluid application (and that's true with the circular brush option as well, right)? I use Walker's fluids, an enzyme that needs to be mixed at the time of use, a cleaning fluid (I suppose that could be stored in the machine), a pure water bath, then a 'finishing' fluid. I suppose you could still manually apply steps 1, 3 and 4 of this regime using the Hanni?

 

[CT0wens]

I actually use the very same Walker fluids as well (4-step quartet). For this reason, I've never been interested in machines that store fluid or have a connected brush (until I saw the circular brush demo). For this, I'll try the Hannl cleaning fluid made especially for the brush (non-foaming + other magic I presume) other and substitute it for step 2. Or, maybe just use the circular brush during the step 3 rinse.

My Micro EL just has a vacuum tube. If I did have a machine with fluid application - I'd probably only store step 3 in it (as you know, an ultra-pure water with no additives). If I wanted to grow a small hanging plant out of the machine's tank -- I'd recommend putting L'Art d Son in it

Also, I've noticed that Lloyd Walker has started to demo his own products in short videos on YouTube. Strangely, he started with the one that is probably least misunderstood - cleaning a CD. I'll be curious to see if he does dem his Prelude system and how long he lets the fluids set, how much fluid he uses, brush technique, etc.

 

[Bill Hart]

Thanks for the reply, CT. Interesting that you'd put the pure water in the reservoir rather than the cleaning fluid. I didn't realize that the circular brush used a particular fluid.

 

[CT0wens]

My logic on using only a rinse in the tank is that over time you could change/experiment with different fluid rinses of ultra-pure water and not worry about mixing different chemicals together. I assume that if one were totally monogamous with one cleaner (that wouldn't lose effectiveness standing in a tank over time or grow bacteria/algae, etc.) it'd be fine.

With regard to the Hannl Circular Brush -- my understanding of the designer's intent was to have a fluid (Hannl VI3c fluid) that would not foam to provide for more opportunity to hold in suspension the gunk/debris being cleaned out of the grooves. The brush in fact isn't supposed to be literally "scrubbing" the record (bristles not in the grooves) as much as it is creating turbulence in the water to force the detergent down into the bottom of the groove.

Again, as a hobbyist, interesting stuff -- always something new...