Re-imagining "Class A" Amplification

[LampiNA]

Can anyone who's used these amps with extremely sensitive horn speakers 99db + please chime in?

Adam,

We demonstrate them in our two long island parlors with 99db efficency horns byTobian Sound Systems to tremendous effect. We've also showed them domestically with 92db GT Audio Works Reference 3 speakers and it was a wonderful pairing.

All of their merits are on full display with high efficiency speakers.

Best,

Fred

 

[lscangus]

Westminster on Westminsters, Part III

Thank you for your write up and detailed report! We are very happy that you are enjoying music with our products and knowing this makes all our hard work worthwhile. And indeed, to reveal the speed and transient of our amps and your system, a short and high quality speaker cable is preferable as the amp and the speaker cable work together as a system.

 

[Tuckia]

Seatrope,
We have some same and similar components in our systems; namely the Extreme Server, Horizon dac, and my Tobian 15FH are 99 db efficient with 15” woofers. I’ve been playing with a couple preamps and now an EMIA silver AVC - all SE. So far only the EMIA silver is showing a net gain in SQ as compared to dac to amp direct (the EMIA copper was a step back). The question I have for you is, with the REI, is the VC range acceptable on the bottom? Can you effectively turn it down? I don’t have that issue with an 8 watt SET amp, but my 100watt SS amp was only loud and louder when connected direct.

You reported quite well, thank you for your insights, that the REI sounds wonderful run direct. A change from SE to balanced would be quite a change here. Trying to determine if there are any downsides. Thanks.

 

[seatrope]

Seatrope,
We have some same and similar components in our systems; namely the Extreme Server, Horizon dac, and my Tobian 15FH are 99 db efficient with 15” woofers. I’ve been playing with a couple preamps and now an EMIA silver AVC - all SE. So far only the EMIA silver is showing a net gain in SQ as compared to dac to amp direct (the EMIA copper was a step back). The question I have for you is, with the REI, is the VC range acceptable on the bottom? Can you effectively turn it down? I don’t have that issue with an 8 watt SET amp, but my 100watt SS amp was only loud and louder when connected direct.

You reported quite well, thank you for your insights, that the REI sounds wonderful run direct. A change from SE to balanced would be quite a change here. Trying to determine if there are any downsides. Thanks.

@Tuckia - great to see you here too after seeing you on both the Horizon and Taiko threads

Would be interested to hear @LampiNA 's take on it as I suspect that the combination of Taiko/Horizon/REI/Tobian is closer to Fred's setup that mine.

Having said that, I must be honest and say that I don't actually have much data on how the REIs perform on my Westminsters at low volumes. I am essentially exclusively aiming to listen at real life or near real life SPLs. So I cannot judge, but the delicacy, microdynamics and level of detail retrieval in quiet passages with the REIs/Westminsters is second to none, at real life volume levels. Doesn't really mean it can be extrapolated to low volume levels, IMHO. I"ll need to do the test myself, but am away from my system this week and for the next 2.5 weeks, so will do so when I return.

As an interesting aside, since you mention AVCs, I've been obsessed with various passive/AVC/buffered preamps for a long time. I went from a Placette resistor attenuated "preamp" to a Townshend Allegri AVC (beloved of Martin Colloms of HiFi Critic) to the Hornshoppe "Truth" buffered pre that Art Salvatore raves about. All of these have been SE. I found the Truth to be truly excellent, but I'd say moving to XLR/Balanced and going direct from the H to the REIs has really been a step above all of the SE options. I have not missed having a separate attenuator in the chain, buffered or otherwise.
I'd suggest you give XLR direct to the REIs a whirl, would be an easy thing to audition, but I'll also get back to you once I can do the test at low volumes.

 

[Tuckia]

We have been brought here by the same influences . I'm collecting relevant input from whomever is offering. I know Fred, and probably Rob, are getting busy with CAF this week, but we'll cover this ground eventually.

I'm always interested in how well a system plays at low levels due to my domestic "challenges". But I've been realizing that these Tobian do like to sing at a higher level. My current 8 watt amp does surprisingly well in my large room, but all the positive reports on the REI have me wondering about the possibilities.

Prior to the EMIA, I would routinely run the Horizon at single digit VC levels. With the SS amp, the only option was 01 out of 63. Down here I believe dynamics suffer. The AVC converts voltage to current, so now running the H at 63, I can run the EMIA in single digits with more bass drive, but without losing resolution like the other options I've tried.

A simple chain is preferred. I see DSG using this arrangement, Horizon direct to REI, in more than a few places.

I look forward to your feedback on how well this works. Thanks.

 

[mxk116]

We have been brought here by the same influences . I'm collecting relevant input from whomever is offering. I know Fred, and probably Rob, are getting busy with CAF this week, but we'll cover this ground eventually.

I'm always interested in how well a system plays at low levels due to my domestic "challenges". But I've been realizing that these Tobian do like to sing at a higher level. My current 8 watt amp does surprisingly well in my large room, but all the positive reports on the REI have me wondering about the possibilities.

Prior to the EMIA, I would routinely run the Horizon at single digit VC levels. With the SS amp, the only option was 01 out of 63. Down here I believe dynamics suffer. The AVC converts voltage to current, so now running the H at 63, I can run the EMIA in single digits with more bass drive, but without losing resolution like the other options I've tried.

A simple chain is preferred. I see DSG using this arrangement, Horizon direct to REI, in more than a few places.

I look forward to your feedback on how well this works. Thanks.

Interesting that a simple signal path and reduced complexity are also design principles for Westminster Lab.

 

[gleeds]

Tuckia. Your right, we just wrapped up CAF so I expect you will hear from the Lampi boys shortly as to what you can expect at low levels with the pairing of the three components in the chain. I am sure Fred and Rob would be happy to facilitate a demo so you can experience the Rei/Horizon combo for yourself. Thanks for your interest.

 

[Yossie4]

Hello All. Let me introduce myself to this forum and thread. I am Angus and I am one of the founder of WestminsterLab. Feel free to hit me any questions about anything and I will try my best to answer here.

Any experience with Westminster monoblock amplifier with Vivid Gia 1

thnaks in advance
Yossi

 

[seatrope]

If I’m correct, that’s what the designer Angus @lscangus uses. Can’t get any better than that…

 

[mxk116]

Any experience with Westminster monoblock amplifier with Vivid Gia 1

thnaks in advance
Yossi

IIRC I think Westminster Lab uses Vivid Giya speakers in their listening room. Calling @gleeds or @lscangus

​

 

[gleeds]

Yossi, I'm sure Angus will reply later in the day, however I can confirm that the vast majority of WestminsterLab electronics development is done using the Spirit G1 as our reference.

 

[gleeds]

Yossi, I'm sure Angus will reply later in the day, however I can confirm that the vast majority of WestminsterLab electronics development is done using the Spirit G1 as our reference.

Yossi, this is our reference factory listening lab set-up, in this photo using a bridged pair of Rei, producing 800 watts into 4 ohms to power the Giya. G!S. At 6 ohms and 92db efficiency one pair of Rei will perform brilliantly but one can always add a second pair if funds and desire call

 

[lscangus]

Any experience with Westminster monoblock amplifier with Vivid Gia 1

thnaks in advance
Yossi

Hello Yossi, welcome to this thread =]. We have a few reference speakers and the Vivid Audio G1 is "the reference" for us. We have the G1S2, but not the spirit ( the spirit has larger voice coil and magnets for the bass for better control ). We are running two Quest and 4 Rei in bridged mode with bo-wire connection to the G1 at the moment. Let me know if you have any questions

 

[gleeds]

Hi all. We have made a few trips recently to AV Luxury in Las Vegas. AV Luxury is among the most beautiful hi-end audio showrooms I have visited and represents some amazing brands. For anyone passing through LV I encourage you to make a stop and say hello to Thomas, the owner.

Below are photos from my visit with Westminster electronics powering AVL's Raidho 3.2's, as well as Magico S3's. It was fun to demo the Quest preamplifier with a single pair of Rei's, then follow up with bridged pairs (4) amplifiers). Over the Christmas break we will visit again and have the pleasure of auditioning with the Von Schweikert Ultra 7's.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi all. We have made a few trips recently to AV Luxury in Las Vegas. AV Luxury is among the most beautiful hi-end audio showrooms I have visited and represents some amazing brands. For anyone passing through LV I encourage you to make a stop and say hello to Thomas, the owner.

Below are photos from my visit with Westminster electronics powering AVL's Raidho 3.2's, as well as Magico S3's. It was fun to demo the Quest preamplifier with a single pair of Rei's, then follow up with bridged pairs (4) amplifiers). Over the Christmas break we will visit again and have the pleasure of auditioning with the Von Schweikert Ultra 7's.

View attachment 121445 View attachment 121446

Bridged momos. I love it. Gorgeous set up

 

[gleeds]

A few more fun shots and a new product highlight. Happy holidays everyone!

The all new Monologue phono is expected to arrive on US shores early in the New Year. See CK Keung's field report in the WBF link below.

Westminster Lab Monologue phonoamp - a new 2023 product

I am not an vinyl audiophile but came across this excellent new Westminster Lab Monologue phonoamp when I visited the WL headquarter listening room a few days ago. Here is WL HQ listening room : Able to spot the new component-mix? :D They are : two Quest preamps in mono mode, Rei poweramp...

www.whatsbestforum.com

In brief the new Monologue phono pre is an extension of the modular MM/MC and DS Audio phono Angus developed last year for the Quest Preamplifier. Placing these circuits in a separate chassis with a massive dedicated power supply has raised the bar to where believe the Monologue can compete with the finest stand alone devices regardless of price. Also new for 2024 is a dedicated mono phono card.

The anticipated cost of the Monolog will be around $12k including your choice of phono card. More new products for WestminsterLab are in store for Munich so watch these pages for updates.

Latest products in the lab.
Two Quest preamps in special mono configuration
Two Monolog phono pre's (one for mono replay) shown in upper right system photo
Rei bridged mode amplifiers
MSB Reference DAC (Lumin streamer hidden)
Techdas Air Force 3 Premium mounted with an Ikeda arm for the DS cart and the exceptional Glanz arm for the Miyajima mono
A full bloom of WestminsterLab Ultra series cables including our MSB DC power supply cables for the Reference DAC
Vivid Giya G1 speakers (not shown)

 

[lscangus]

A few more fun shots and a new product highlight. Happy holidays everyone!

The all new Monologue phono is expected to arrive on US shores early in the New Year. See CK Keung's field report in the WBF link below.

Westminster Lab Monologue phonoamp - a new 2023 product

I am not an vinyl audiophile but came across this excellent new Westminster Lab Monologue phonoamp when I visited the WL headquarter listening room a few days ago. Here is WL HQ listening room : Able to spot the new component-mix? :D They are : two Quest preamps in mono mode, Rei poweramp...

www.whatsbestforum.com

In brief the new Monologue phono pre is an extension of the modular MM/MC and DS Audio phono Angus developed last year for the Quest Preamplifier. Placing these circuits in a separate chassis with a massive dedicated power supply has raised the bar to where believe the Monologue can compete with the finest stand alone devices regardless of price. Also new for 2024 is a dedicated mono phono card.

The anticipated cost of the Monolog will be around $12k including your choice of phono card. More new products for WestminsterLab are in store for Munich so watch these pages for updates.

Latest products in the lab.
Two Quest preamps in special mono configuration
Two Monolog phono pre's (one for mono replay) shown in upper right system photo
Rei bridged mode amplifiers
MSB Reference DAC (Lumin streamer hidden)
Techdas Air Force 3 Premium mounted with an Ikeda arm for the DS cart and the exceptional Glanz arm for the Miyajima mono
A full bloom of WestminsterLab Ultra series cables including our MSB DC power supply cables for the Reference DAC
Vivid Giya G1 speakers (not shown)

View attachment 121743 View attachment 121744

Thank you Gary for the report. The Monologue is a very focused unit, it has one function only and it is designed to bring the best out of our Phono card and bring what we think is the true sound from the grooves of your vinyl. The Monologue enclosure provides 7 individual power regulators and a bespoke 200watts transformer just to do that purpose, and the built in dual mono output circuitry make sure the output has a low impedance output for a stable and interference resistance transmission.

The dedicated MONO card also shows our commitment to the love of music. The TRUE MONO card only has one set of input and we sell dedicated MONO phono cable so music lovers can truly hear what MONO should sound like.

@CKKeung paid us a visit and we had some time talking about music and listened to the system, digital, DS and Mono. For readers who are interested, please following the link: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/westminster-lab-monologue-phonoamp-a-new-2023-product.37804/post-932207

 

[viola]

Yes, output and input for daisy chaining for more Rei !

Angus, is it the Neutrik NSC3F (female) or NSC3M (male) connector that is used on the load end of the 12V remote trigger cable coming from the preamp and that plugs into the REI? Thanks for your guidance.

 

[lscangus]

Angus, is it the Neutrik NSC3F (female) or NSC3M (male) connector that is used on the load end of the 12V remote trigger cable coming from the preamp and that plugs into the REI? Thanks for your guidance.

The trigger input of the Rei has a male socket, so you will need a female plug for it.

 

[seatrope]

Happy New Years all!

Just spent some time getting the Nanocon triggers up and running. Just had full success with my monoblocks, so wanted to report - @viola in case you find some of this useful.

I ordered male and female Nanocon connectors from Mouser -
NSC3M Neutrik | Mouser
NSC3F Neutrik | Mouser

I got a 12V small brick from Amazon:
Amazon.com: GuanTing Universal AC Adapter 12V 2A Power Supply Charger 24W AC110V to DC12V 2000mA 1500mA 1000mA 500mA Power Driver 8 DC Plug Tips 12 Volt Converter Inverter Transformer ac dc Adapter(DC12V~2A) : Automotive

These DC socket to pigtails were useful too:
Amazon.com: 12V DC Power Pigtail Cable,3.3FT 18AWG DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm Female Plug to Bare Wire Open End Power Wire,for 12V DC 5521 Power Wire Supply Repair Cable(2Pcs) : Electronics

I used a 26G 2 conductor (you don't need 3 wire per Angus) from Amazon:
26 Gauge 2 Conductor Electrical Wire 26AWG Electrical Wire Stranded PVC Cord Oxygen-free copper Cable 32.8FT/10M Flexible Low Voltage LED Cable for LED Strips Lamps Lighting Automotive(26/2AWG-32.8FT): Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

I also have a RadioRA2 system in my house, so I used a contact closure device that I can now link into Alexa "Alexa, turn on amplifiers"
Lutron LMJ-CCO1-24-B RF Dimming CCO Module | PROLIGHTING

To power the LMJ-CCO1 (only for Lutron RadioRA2 users) I used this 24V brick:
Amazon.com: 12V DC Power Pigtail Cable,3.3FT 18AWG DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm Female Plug to Bare Wire Open End Power Wire,for 12V DC 5521 Power Wire Supply Repair Cable(2Pcs) : Electronics

I hooked up the +12V from the 12VDC PSU to the red wire on the 26G wire. Ground on the 12VDC PSU went to the NO terminal on the LMJ-CCO1. Ground (black wire) from the 26G wire went back to the COM terminal on the LMJ-CCO1. These will vary according to your contact closure device, of course.

I didn't see @lscangus ' instructions to use the female connector, so I ended up using the male Nanocon connector for my first wire set. That worked great! The REI monoblock turned on and off reliably. Red +12V was connected to PIN2 on the nanocon and Ground was on PIN1 (the single one at the bottom). The plastic blocks are actually printed with very small 1, 2, 3 numbers on the Nanocon but you have to really squint.

Now this is where I ran into issues. I made up a daisy-chain cable as I understood it, using female - female Nanocon, Pin1 ground connected to Pin1 ground, Pin2 hot connected to Pin2 hot.
The first monoblock directly connected to the LMJ worked great to turn on, but the second one did not. I swapped cables around so that the main cable from the LMJ was going to the other monoblock; this monoblock now turned on, but the daisy chained one did not.

Now I thought, maybe it was because the daisy chained monoblock did not like the female connector. So I swapped my daisy chain cable end to male, i.e. now female to male.
No luck. Still did not work. I checked continuity and shorts with my ohmmeter each time, all pins tested as they should. It was 2am on New Years, so I gave up.

This morning I decided to just fork two parallel cables from the main cable running from the home automation closure device. Male Nanocons at each end. This finally worked and I now have reliable switch on/off of both the REIs together! Woohoo!

Thanks @lscangus for your advice. Not sure why daisy chain does not work, but I'll worry about that once I have bridged sets
P.S. The REIs have both male and female Nanocon connectors at the back. Not sure if they are any different, but as noted above the male cables were the only ones that worked for me, unclear why. Certainly I could have messed up which was "pin 2" on the female connector but i did it according to the same Neutrik scheme/diagram/block numbers as the male one.

I posted these pics of my current system/room in the Taiko systems thread, but reposting here too! You can see the REIs peeking out from behind the center table between the speakers.