Question about cable strategy!

[Johnny Vinyl]

This is a slightly different thread from the very interesting one Lee started a few days ago, as I want to get opinion on what some of you consider to be an effective cable strategy for us Frugal Audiophiles. It is generally agreed that one should spend approximately 10-15% (maybe as high as 20%) of the audio budget on various cabling requirements. For the frugal audiophile this means that a lot of cables, if using the 10-15-20% rule, are not up for consideration. We could get lucky on the used market from time to time, but this means buying blind and not having the security of a money-back guarentee. But I digress as this is not my actual question.

Should the frugal audiophile consider spending more than the generally accepted 10-15-20 rule as a means to improve the quality of their playback? Or does this make for a futile or money-wasted consideration/strategy? Secondly, and this I pose only as its something I've often wondered about....do cables have more of an impact on lesser systems or does one need the have SOTA gear to get the most from them?

 

[garylkoh]

John, for the frugal audiophile, this is the way to go:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2963-The-Cable-Dialectic

Unfortunately, that thread degenerated into "cable is inaudible", but if you like, I can coach you into designing the optimum cable for your amp/speaker combination.

 

[bblue]

John, for the frugal audiophile, this is the way to go:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2963-The-Cable-Dialectic

Unfortunately, that thread degenerated into "cable is inaudible", but if you like, I can coach you into designing the optimum cable for your amp/speaker combination.

Gary, sorry to butt in, but when you say 'designing the optimum cable' what do you mean? Choosing an existing manufactured one or literally building with specific materials?

I'd like to know more about your methodology as an aid to my own quest. Not frugal but not balls to the wall either.

I have replaced my Litz cables with a set of 2.5M Cardas Golden Reference. While they're a whole lot better than the Hexlink 5 cables I was using, and they are pretty open, there's a sense that something is missing. You can't hear too far into them while at the same time they seem to be deep, wide and detailed. But dark, I guess might be a way to put it. I'll have to say though, they have allowed my to listen to and enjoy a variety of recordings I wouldn't normally want to hear. They're almost right but not quite.

The Litz cables had a great sense of inner detail, but were a bit lean on the low end and unpleasantly bright on less than ideal recordings.

--Bill

 

[mep]

John, for the frugal audiophile, this is the way to go:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2963-The-Cable-Dialectic

Unfortunately, that thread degenerated into "cable is inaudible"...

And I predict this one will too and it will probably be sooner rather than later. Get ready for a mugging from the 'double-blind everything sounds the same gang.'

 

[garylkoh]

Gary, sorry to butt in, but when you say 'designing the optimum cable' what do you mean? Choosing an existing manufactured one or literally building with specific materials?

I'd like to know more about your methodology as an aid to my own quest. Not frugal but not balls to the wall either.

I have replaced my Litz cables with a set of 2.5M Cardas Golden Reference. While they're a whole lot better than the Hexlink 5 cables I was using, and they are pretty open, there's a sense that something is missing. You can't hear too far into them while at the same time they seem to be deep, wide and detailed. But dark, I guess might be a way to put it. I'll have to say though, they have allowed my to listen to and enjoy a variety of recordings I wouldn't normally want to hear. They're almost right but not quite.

The Litz cables had a great sense of inner detail, but were a bit lean on the low end and unpleasantly bright on less than ideal recordings.

--Bill

Bill, literally building one from scratch. See the thread - raw materials will be CAT5 stranded cable.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

John, for the frugal audiophile, this is the way to go:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2963-The-Cable-Dialectic

Unfortunately, that thread degenerated into "cable is inaudible", but if you like, I can coach you into designing the optimum cable for your amp/speaker combination.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that I didn't pay attention to that thread (shy of contributing to something I don't know anything about). I do have have a 50ft length of this cable (I think it's CAT5e, but not sure). I also bought it from RS some time ago as my PC was on the other side of the room and needed additional length. Before I comment further, let me take some time to read through the thread in its entirety. And yes, I'd be very grateful for any assistance you could provide.

 

[garylkoh]

And I predict this one will too and it will probably be sooner rather than later. Get ready for a mugging from the 'double-blind everything sounds the same gang.'

I hope not..... because I used to be one of them. I went from cables make a big difference, to "there is no way that cables can make a difference". Only recently swung the other way again.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

And I predict this one will too and it will probably be sooner rather than later. Get ready for a mugging from the 'double-blind everything sounds the same gang.'

Hi Mark - If it goes that route I'll have it closed! Seriously! I'm a frugal audiophile...I don't have the money, the time or the inclination to debate topics that some might want to introduce...we have enough of them. I'm trying to get an understanding about cable strategy on how we as frugal audiophiles could benefit from cable selection.

 

[mep]

John-Gary is offerning to help design a pair of cables for your system that will cost you next to nothing because they are made with CAT 5 cable. I don't know how you can get more frugal than that. You should try it and let us know what you think.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

John-Gary is offerning to help design a pair of cables for your system that will cost you next to nothing because they are made with CAT 5 cable. I don't know how you can get more frugal than that. You should try it and let us know what you think.

See my post #6....I am indeed grateful!

 

[Bill Hart]

John, for the frugal audiophile, this is the way to go:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2963-The-Cable-Dialectic

Unfortunately, that thread degenerated into "cable is inaudible", but if you like, I can coach you into designing the optimum cable for your amp/speaker combination.

Gary: I just read through that thread and, i gotta say, you are a patient guy! Did anybody ever assemble the different pairs of CAT5 in the way you instructed and report back their findings?

When I started this game as a hobbyist back in the late 60's-early 70's, I don't remember any 'special' cables being offered- perhaps bigger gauge speaker cables, maybe solid core vs stranded and different quality connectors on interconnects, but what was available commercially was pretty limited.
My first experiments took place in the mid-80's- I borrowed about 1/2 dozen different speaker cables from my dealer for a weekend and just sat there and played- one after another- all weekend. I was using Quad ESLs at the time, an Audio Research amp and preamp (can't remember what stage of evolution I was at then) and a decent turntable/cartridge set-up.
I definitely found that a couple of those speaker cables sounded 'better' overall on the system than the others- and can't remember what brand I wound up choosing.
Since then- right or wrong- i've tended to regard cables as a sort of 'filter'- and the question, at least to me, has less to do with measurements than with how the particular cable sounds within a given system.
There is also something to be said for using cable from the same manufacturer throughout- perhaps to eliminate variables if nothing else.
Over the course of years, and various iterations of equipment and speakers, I've used stuff from Cardas, MIT, Kimber, Shunyata, Van den Hul, etc. and presently use Joe Kubala's stuff for everything. But, on a different system or with a different set of ears, another brand may produce a 'better' result for that listener.

 

[rockitman]

The best frugal 6 nines silver cables I have heard are the Element Signature Titan Ag interconnect. I have two 13 ft. runs in XLR (Cardas Gold/Rhodium xlr connectors) running to and from my parametric eq in my tape loop. I am able to A/B source compare the signal through them w/o eq and that of the source interconnect which is Nordost Valhalla and Siltech Classic 770i at the touch of a button on my remote. The Element's more than hold there own albeit not as good as the hyper expensive cables mentioned.

http://www.elementcable.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27_30&products_id=76

 

[LenWhite]

do cables have more of an impact on lesser systems or does one need the have SOTA gear to get the most from them?

RMAF seminars I've attended demonstrated how a solid "system foundation" (equipment placement, synergistic cabling, resonance control) ensures optimum performance of even modest audio equipment. Seminar attendees were advised to consider using a cable loom (IC's, PC's, speaker cable) all from the same manufacturer to optimize design continuity throughout the electrical path.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

RMAF seminars I've attended demonstrated how a solid "system foundation" (equipment placement, synergistic cabling, resonance control) ensures optimum performance of even modest audio equipment. Seminar attendees were advised to consider using a cable loom (IC's, PC's, speaker cable) all from the same manufacturer to optimize design continuity throughout the electrical path.

Thank you Len! I believe I did read that same thing as well. I do employ that method currently with the Valab/King Cable assortment I have. I am happy with it.

 

[RogerD]

Hello John,

Since with my subs and rtr's I require long length ic's,so i searched for a low imedance cable and found Gepco.

http://www.gepco.com/products/proav_cable/analog_audio/mic_xband_dblbraid_M.htm

I use the Gepco XB201DBM which I find fits well with my NBS cables and does not effect them in a negative way,which is hard to find a "cheap" cable that is compatible.

I have this company make them with canare F10 ends.

http://www.redco.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=126&cat=Design+Your+Own+Custom+Cable

A 6ft pair would run about 53.00 bucks

And I might add that you can always find a brand and buy used. I think many have done that.

 

[bblue]

And I predict this one will too and it will probably be sooner rather than later. Get ready for a mugging from the 'double-blind everything sounds the same gang.'

Isn't that up to the moderator to keep the thread on track? This should be a discussion of cable principles among those who know there are significant differences in most cables and have high resolution equipment which can easily reveal it. Not to mention, ears to discern it. Dissenters need not reply since it's not that debate.

Not trying to be condescending, just blunt.

--Bill

 

[bblue]

Bill, literally building one from scratch. See the thread - raw materials will be CAT5 stranded cable.

For some reason I can't seem to locate that thread. There is one that starts out like it could be that (the Cable Dialectric thread), but that's all I could find, and not one I'd want to read again.

--Bill

 

[rbbert]

And if you decide to go with manufactured cables, I've had good luck dealing with usedcable.com. Not only do they have a lending library, you can exchange purchased (used cables) usually for their full purchase price towards another cable (or even other types of products they carry).

 

[garylkoh]

Gary: I just read through that thread and, i gotta say, you are a patient guy! Did anybody ever assemble the different pairs of CAT5 in the way you instructed and report back their findings?

A couple of guys have built the cable, but none reported back. In the Cable Dialectic thread, we have the two extremes, and then you have to assemble and reassemble until you get the result you want. I do agree that different cable manufacturers deliver different results. Joe Kubala's stuff sound great - unfortunately, they are not for the frugal audiophile.

 

[garylkoh]

For some reason I can't seem to locate that thread. There is one that starts out like it could be that (the Cable Dialectric thread), but that's all I could find, and not one I'd want to read again.

--Bill

Bill, that's the thread - it's not one that I want to revive. It will go the same way. Hopefully this thread ends up better.