Paleo

[Bill Hart]

along the lines of what Myles said, one anesthesiologist buddy of mine (who BTW climbed Everest) said to me that the reason there are so many diets in the world, is that none of them work

IMO what Bill did may have been called Paleo but looking beyond was rather more a life style change that resulted in the weight loss over 1.5 years

I hooked up with a nutritionist 3 years ago and began a strict diet and exercise program resulting to date in a 63 lb weight loss which I have maintained

I agree with Frantz that "good" fats in one's diet is essential. I would also go so far as saying that we also need a small amount of saturated fat each day (such as a tablespoonful of butter)

Unlike Frantz, I do believe that milk is essential. I just drink non fat or on rare occasions 1 % milk.

I also found that reducing the frequency with which we dine out was a huge help.

Good for you. I think you are right, it's not really accurate to say what i am doing is "Paleo" or just the result of diet. I think sensible food, clean, non-processed, etc. combined with consistent, effective exercise is the key. There is also so much sugar in stuff. I won't drink OJ other than fresh- even the fancy stuff seems to be full of sugar. Likewise, salad dressings. Ton's of salt in restaurant food.
And I drink gallons of water.

 

[Steve Williams]

Good for you. I think you are right, it's not really accurate to say what i am doing is "Paleo" or just the result of diet. I think sensible food, clean, non-processed, etc. combined with consistent, effective exercise is the key. There is also so much sugar in stuff. I won't drink OJ other than fresh- even the fancy stuff seems to be full of sugar. Likewise, salad dressings. Ton's of salt in restaurant food.
And I drink gallons of water.

I'm with you on everything Bill

It has been alluded to elsewhere here by Myles but in summary my mantra has always been, "its easy to lose weight, more difficult to keep it off and very easy to gain it all back", so it must be a life style change "forever and a day"

 

[MylesBAstor]

I'm with you on everything Bill

It has been alluded to elsewhere here by Myles but in summary my mantra has always been, "its easy to lose weight, more difficult to keep it off and very easy to gain it all back", so it must be a life style change "forever and a day"

Yep

And a lot of this issue is due to "how" people lose weight.

Most only do dieting, some include cardio, and a even fewer weight training. So in the process of losing weight, also drop their BMR (Basal metabolic or RMR (resting metabolic rate). So once they go off the diet and start to eat more, then their metabolism is ill prepared to deal with the additional energy supply. Ergo that familiar yo-yo weight loss, weight gain phenomena.

OTOH, if you include resistance training, you not only can lose weight but maintain or increase your BMR/RMR. There are some studies that showed that even in an extreme case of eating only 800 calories/day for five months, that the participants could maintain their metabolism as long as the did 3-4 days of resistance training. And as we know, it's exercise, not calories that builds muscle (we can talk about the disinhibition theory of muscle growth at a later time). And it's muscle mass that determines our metabolic rate, Hence, the drop in metabolism as we age.(of course there are other factors such as hormones too!)

As an aside, RMR/BMR vary widely for even the same sex, weight and height. So using the old 10xBW calculation really doesn't work. One could be off by 500 or more calories and as we know, all it takes is 100 extra calories/day to pack say 20# on at the end of a year.

 

[Steve Williams]

all it takes is 100 extra calories/day to pack say 20# on at the end of a year.

So true

 

[Andre Marc]

Hi Bill:

I went on a very similar diet 3 months ago.

I am five foot ten and felt a bit sluggish at 168. I wanted to boost my energy level, and I knew I was eating too much refined
sugar and carbs. I normally workout 6 hours a week.

In the beginning I cut ALL bread, pasta, and rice. Breakfast was 3 eggs and a zero carb protein bar.

I have no added back in complex carbs like sweet potato and legumes like lentils etc and tons of vegetables. I will eat
bread or pasta twice a week.

I eat a lot of protein...natural beef, chicken, and fish. I also increased my fat intake, from high quality sources

The difference has been huge. I am down to 160, I don't nod off after meals, and my workouts are more
explosive.

The bottom line is we were never programmed to eat refined sugars, baked goods, and processed foods.

 

[Bill Hart]

Hi Bill:

I went on a very similar diet 3 months ago.

I am five foot ten and felt a bit sluggish at 168. I wanted to boost my energy level, and I knew I was eating too much refined
sugar and carbs. I normally workout 6 hours a week.

In the beginning I cut ALL bread, pasta, and rice. Breakfast was 3 eggs and a zero carb protein bar.

I have no added back in complex carbs like sweet potato and legumes like lentils etc and tons of vegetables. I will eat
bread or pasta twice a week.

I eat a lot of protein...natural beef, chicken, and fish. I also increased my fat intake, from high quality sources

The difference has been huge. I am down to 160, I don't nod off after meals, and my workouts are more
explosive.

The bottom line is we were never programmed to eat refined sugars, baked goods, and processed foods.

Andre, i remember you mentioning this in an earlier thread, when i asked if you were doing a Paleo type thing. I have really become addicted to the exercise. It feels good, physically and mentally.
I switched gyms recently, and started going to the local JCC, which is an extremely nice facility. Although I'm jewish, I'm a little light on religion, but I kinda dig the place, lot's of old timers, serious weight lifters, and the ladies that play mah jong or whatever. What surprised me, given the size and staff was that they were totally clueless when I asked them if they offered krav maga. I did one session at another place, the dude's warm up was two hours. It was brutal and i think his gimmick was to see if people could keep up with him.
We also did a rock clamber a couple months ago along the Palisdades here in the lower Hudson Valley. The cliffs crumble occasionally (there was a big rock slide, right where we were a month later) and leave these monster boulders. Some are bigger than a car or truck, others merely the size of a smart car. Basically, once you hike down to the water, it's at least 3 miles of a boulder field along the Hudson River. While the footing was tricky (I couldn't imagine the logistics of getting someone out of there if they broke something, probably a police boat), and there were copperheads around (i never saw one, and didn't stick my hand into the crevasses), the work out was incredible. At the end, you have to hike back up to the highway on a very steep trail.
Totally kicked my ass, but it was fun. My wife and her friend have done it a few times, and it was quite enjoyable.

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre, i remember you mentioning this in an earlier thread, when i asked if you were doing a Paleo type thing. I have really become addicted to the exercise. It feels good, physically and mentally.
I switched gyms recently, and started going to the local JCC, which is an extremely nice facility. Although I'm jewish, I'm a little light on religion, but I kinda dig the place, lot's of old timers, serious weight lifters, and the ladies that play mah jong or whatever. What surprised me, given the size and staff was that they were totally clueless when I asked them if they offered krav maga. I did one session at another place, the dude's warm up was two hours. It was brutal and i think his gimmick was to see if people could keep up with him.
We also did a rock clamber a couple months ago along the Palisdades here in the lower Hudson Valley. The cliffs crumble occasionally (there was a big rock slide, right where we were a month later) and leave these monster boulders. Some are bigger than a car or truck, others merely the size of a smart car. Basically, once you hike down to the water, it's at least 3 miles of a boulder field along the Hudson River. While the footing was tricky (I couldn't imagine the logistics of getting someone out of there if they broke something, probably a police boat), and there were copperheads around (i never saw one, and didn't stick my hand into the crevasses), the work out was incredible. At the end, you have to hike back up to the highway on a very steep trail.
Totally kicked my ass, but it was fun. My wife and her friend have done it a few times, and it was quite enjoyable.

Funny, I play tennis and workout twice a week at the La Jolla JCC. Love it! I am one of the tribe too, but not big on religion..any religion.

A few more notes on Paleo, and variations on it. Your weight will stabilize, so if your goal is to lose additional weight, the only
way to do this, unfortunately, is calorie restriction. But it really all depends on what you are after.

Also, I very strongly recommend joining and subscribing to Shin Ohtake's web site. He is a brilliant fitness/nutrition/lifestyle expert
who only works with science and not myth. He is in the LA area.

Essentially he says restrict refined carbs to 100g per day, forget all processed foods, increase protein and healthy fat intake, engage in short to medium duration
explosive workouts, and he also put together a huge workout book/pdf for functional training. Functional, as in workouts to actually
make you strong, fit, and to prevent injury and natural degeneration. These are NOT cosmetic workouts.

He also jumps all over the food industry's marketing ploys and phoney labels like "Low Fat", etc.

I get his emails once a week and I paid $35 for his workouts

www.maxworkouts.com

 

[Bill Hart]

Funny, I play tennis and workout twice a week at the La Jolla JCC. Love it! I am one of the tribe too, but not big on religion..any religion.

A few more notes on Paleo, and variations on it. Your weight will stabilize, so if your goal is to lose additional weight, the only
way to do this, unfortunately, is calorie restriction. But it really all depends on what you are after.

Also, I very strongly recommend joining and subscribing to Shin Ohtake's web site. He is a brilliant fitness/nutrition/lifestyle expert
who only works with science and not myth. He is in the LA area.

Essentially he says restrict refined carbs to 100g per day, forget all processed foods, increase protein and healthy fat intake, engage in short to medium duration
explosive workouts, and he also put together a huge workout book/pdf for functional training. Functional, as in workouts to actually
make you strong, fit, and to prevent injury and natural degeneration. These are NOT cosmetic workouts.

He also jumps all over the food industry's marketing ploys and phoney labels like "Low Fat", etc.

I get his emails once a week and I paid $35 for his workouts

www.maxworkouts.com

At this point, my weight is fine, i just want to keep physically challenged, and i totally agree with the shorter, more explosive work-outs. I learned that from one of my trainers, i think he followed a japanese method as well, sounded like 'Shibata' (which i know is a stylus profile), maybe 'Kubata'?- work out beyond level that 02 can supply- stuff like running bursts on the speed board (far better than a treadmill b/c it is totally manual and requires balance) in intervals between weights and other stuff. You are right at a certain point, weight stablizes. I got stuck at 190, then pushed down my intake, got to 185, worked out harder and continued to reduce intake, hit a little below 180 and now holding.
I will check your guy out. When you say you paid for a work out, you mean in person?

PS found the name, Tabata, i think it was more about burning fat through intense interval training.

 

[Andre Marc]

At this point, my weight is fine, i just want to keep physically challenged, and i totally agree with the shorter, more explosive work-outs. I learned that from one of my trainers, i think he followed a japanese method as well, sounded like 'Shibata' (which i know is a stylus profile), maybe 'Kubata'?- work out beyond level that 02 can supply- stuff like running bursts on the speed board (far better than a treadmill b/c it is totally manual and requires balance) in intervals between weights and other stuff. You are right at a certain point, weight stablizes. I got stuck at 190, then pushed down my intake, got to 185, worked out harder and continued to reduce intake, hit a little below 180 and now holding.
I will check your guy out. When you say you paid for a work out, you mean in person?

PS found the name, Tabata, i think it was more about burning fat through intense interval training.

Hi Bill:

Obviously, you are on top of things.

I will add that I was told by an excellent trainer that rehabed me from an MCL strain that the 'body responds to change, not to comfort",
meaning variations in workouts are essential. I vary my workouts at a minimum every third time which makes my body stronger as it has
to adapt to a new set of reps, a new variation on a familiar workout, a new routine etc. That is essential. Doing the same workout continuously
gets you to a plateau.

No I meant I bought the PDF of his workouts. He also has DVDs. He has tons of videos online too and probably on Youtube.

 

[flez007]

Not all diets work evenly among different individuals should be my take.Just to get into ANY of this high-P, low-C diets should work to some good extent - I do need to follow a diet/exercise/anti-stress routine due to a metabolic syndrome I am fighting since my early 30s, and I try to keep below the 10% upper limit threshold of my ideal weight (at 95 Kgms now looking to go down to 90Kgms.I am 6 feet tall.Discipline is key, eating more frequently at smaller portions works for me, and yes..I have folowed Atkinsons, South Beach and Tio Juancho's miracle diet! ( kiddin on the last one). ..not overly frustated nor intense helps the stress control, and should I say...music listening?

 

[puroagave]

Bill i have you beat by 12 lbs 10 yrs a go I stumbled on a weight loss infomercial that literally changed my life at the time. I lost 65lbs over 5-mos following this: http://www.mybodymakeover.com/ . I’m 5’ 11” and started at 245 and got down to 180. at the beginning the weight came off about 7lbs a week, w/o exercise!

I hit two plateaus on the way down and loosing last 10-15 lbs took the longest. Before I hit my best weight I acquired a bench, free weights and incumbent bike. I put 10 lbs of lean muscle back on, and this helped maintain my weight for several years.

I did fall of the wagon since and puts some weight back on – it happened over the last 3-4 yrs but the point is I could do it and moreover w/o lap bands, drugs or evasive surgery. This wasn’t the healthiest way to loose weight, but its strengths are fast results that keep you motivated. The real work as you know, comes afterword when you have to devise a plan to keep it off and maintain a healthy diet that suits your body.

 

[Bill Hart]

Bill i have you beat by 12 lbs 10 yrs a go I stumbled on a weight loss infomercial that literally changed my life at the time. I lost 65lbs over 5-mos following this: http://www.mybodymakeover.com/ . I’m 5’ 11” and started at 245 and got down to 180. at the beginning the weight came off about 7lbs a week, w/o exercise!

I hit two plateaus on the way down and loosing last 10-15 lbs took the longest. Before I hit my best weight I acquired a bench, free weights and incumbent bike. I put 10 lbs of lean muscle back on, and this helped maintain my weight for several years.

I did fall of the wagon since and puts some weight back on – it happened over the last 3-4 yrs but the point is I could do it and moreover w/o lap bands, drugs or evasive surgery. This wasn’t the healthiest way to loose weight, but its strengths are fast results that keep you motivated. The real work as you know, comes afterword when you have to devise a plan to keep it off and maintain a healthy diet that suits your body.

As others have said, it really requires an overall behavioral change, in eating, exercise, etc. Part of it too is age, i think. I used to be able to take off weight fast when I was in my 30's, just by staying off the bread, potatoes, and avoiding desserts for a few weeks. Likewise, I could smoke like a fiend, and still do a five mile run. Not now.
I never focused on diets before my 'personal makeover' that started at the end of 2010. This whole process has been enlightening. My 'stats' are way better on cholesterol, etc. based on periodic physicals. My breathing, despite all the smoking, is far better, and my desire for food is altogether different- I want a salad, rather than a sandwich, and find it satisfying. I also think that when you get older, you can't stress your system through crash diets.
Rob, sounds like you know what's what here but 65 lbs in that short a time sounds pretty extreme, guy!

 

[puroagave]

it is extreme, you’re eating a lot of protein and it’s hard on the kidneys. I was drinking 80 ozs of water a day to offset the effects and ate so much chicken I thought I would grow feathers. The alternative is failing diet after diet, the failures far exceeds the success stories and its why, imo so many look to surgery. You have to be obese to really know how hard it is to loose the weight, in most cases there is metabolic component. I actually didn’t eat more than ‘normal’ people the ratio of bad carbs to protein and good carbs was off balance. Even good carbs will pack on weight if you have any sort of pre-existing insulin resistance.

 

[Steve Williams]

I lost 65 also but it has been gradual over 3.5 years

 

[MylesBAstor]

it is extreme, you’re eating a lot of protein and it’s hard on the kidneys. I was drinking 80 ozs of water a day to offset the effects and ate so much chicken I thought I would grow feathers. The alternative is failing diet after diet, the failures far exceeds the success stories and its why, imo so many look to surgery. You have to be obese to really know how hard it is to loose the weight, in most cases there is metabolic component. I actually didn’t eat more than ‘normal’ people the ratio of bad carbs to protein and good carbs was off balance. Even good carbs will pack on weight if you have any sort of pre-existing insulin resistance.

Rob-thst's an old wives tale. Show me the research that shows that? People have ingested up to 8 g/kg safely (recommended min for couch potato is 0.8). Only caveat is if someone has kidney disease.

Read http://www.amazon.com/Nutrient-Timing-Future-Sports-Nutrition/dp/1591201411 by John Ivy and Robert Portmanteau. Both are leaders in the nutritional research field.

 

[Bill Hart]

it is extreme, you’re eating a lot of protein and it’s hard on the kidneys. I was drinking 80 ozs of water a day to offset the effects and ate so much chicken I thought I would grow feathers. The alternative is failing diet after diet, the failures far exceeds the success stories and its why, imo so many look to surgery. You have to be obese to really know how hard it is to loose the weight, in most cases there is metabolic component. I actually didn’t eat more than ‘normal’ people the ratio of bad carbs to protein and good carbs was off balance. Even good carbs will pack on weight if you have any sort of pre-existing insulin resistance.

Rob, it just struck me that i probably drink that much water, if not more, every day routinely. I don't drink any soda, but we bought one of those machines to make selzter (good NY'er or jew that i am, i like seltzer) and you just fill up a container with tap water, refrigerate it, spritz it and bob's your uncle. My wife likes it mucho, because she doesn't have to deal with the weight of cases of the stuff at the store or returning the empties.

 

[puroagave]

Rob-thst's an old wives tale. Show me the research that shows that? People have ingested up to 8 g/kg safely (recommended min for couch potato is 0.8). Only caveat is if someone has kidney disease.

Read http://www.amazon.com/Nutrient-Timing-Future-Sports-Nutrition/dp/1591201411 by John Ivy and Robert Portmanteau. Both are leaders in the nutritional research field.

the thurmond diet had you eat like 6 meals a day, each containing 4 ozs of lean protein (chicken, fish or egg whites) thats about 24 ozs daily based on an ideal body weight of 172#. their data recomended consuming a min. of 80 ozs of water as part of the plan. the kidney story was in there somewhere

Myles, i dont know one way of another but ill take your word for it based on your background, i can say your pee will smell diferently on this diet