Non-audiophiles who listen to your system...Comments and experiences?

[DaveyF]

I occasionally get the chance to demo my system to a non-audiophile friend. Today, after a long listening session, a couple of friends who are not really into music and certainly not into audio, stopped over.
I was in the middle of listening to the EC 'Unplugged' CD ( pretty familiar material for the non-phile) and invited them into my room for a listen. Whenever I have done something like this in the past, i usually find that the friend listens for a few minutes and then gets a little puzzled and wants to move on.
This time, the wife was somewhat interested, BUT as usual wasn't really into the sound and even less so for her husband. I thought the system was sounding as good as I have ever heard.
The usual comments about why to use tubes since they last saw them in their TV set about 25+years ago and then out to talk to the missus.
Are we a'philes doomed to a life of misunderstanding?
Are you guys experiencing the same with non 'philes coming to visit

 

[RBFC]

It's a matter of being asked to pay strict attention in a situation where they've never been asked that before. They have zero training as to the differences between high-quality reproduction and the Bose wave radio, and they've got that Clapton CD at 128 kbps on their iPod, so why get excited?

We need to develop a "speech", short and sweet, that highlights the fact that we are giving respect to artists who work for years on this product, so that we may hear it as intended. Would they like to view the Mona Lisa in Paris with a layer of gauze material hung over it? Would that be what Rembrandt envisioned?

Lee

 

[Ron Party]

Perhaps all of us should have an iPod dock connected to our systems. When someone comes over with an iPod, connect it and play a song from the iPod at 128kbs and then play the same song on vinyl, tape or CD. The differences may become readily apparent.

 

[RBFC]

Perhaps all of us should have an iPod dock connected to our systems. When someone comes over with an iPod, connect it and play a song from the iPod at 128kbs and then play the same song on vinyl, tape or CD. The differences may become readily apparent.

Or to simply let them hear how good their own recordings can sound through a better reproduction system!

Lee

 

[audioguy]

Are we a'philes doomed to a life of misunderstanding?
Are you guys experiencing the same with non 'philes coming to visit

Yes and Yes.

We (actually, they) live in a world of surround sound. Take that same non-audiophile and let them hear (and see) that same great equipment but with some action flck in surround sound and you will get and keep their attention for longer than you want it.

My wife LOVES our theater and what she can experience while watching any kind of movie but particularly the BIG productions (e.g. Avatar) --- but playing my music through our server to a not very expensive system upstairs is perfectly fine to her. Not that she doesn't hear the difference in the two systems but, quite frankly, it's not important to her. Nor is it to 98% of the population (or whatever the number is).

They just don't get it!

 

[Steve Williams]

My wife LOVES our theater and what she can experience while watching any kind of movie but particularly the BIG productions (e.g. Avatar) --- but playing my music through our server to a not very expensive system upstairs is perfectly fine to her. Not that she doesn't hear the difference in the two systems but, quite frankly, it's not important to her. Nor is it to 98% of the population (or whatever the number is).

My wife exactly

 

[Ron Party]

Mine as well.

 

[garylkoh]

I'm blessed with a wife who is still complaining that I took out the better power cord from her kitchen system to send to a dealer for a demo

I do have plenty of music-loving non-audiophile friends. For them, I have a Squeezebox and Pandora. If they show any interest, I show them how to build their own station, and I've had them sit fascinated for a while exploring music.... at least until the smell of dinner wafts from the kitchen.

 

[terryj]

hmm, I am confused a tad. Or lucky?

I've had the complete opposite experience, more than a few times.

Whilst they would never go out and get themselves an expensive system (ie change their basic nature) the few I have sat down were completely blown away, I still chuckle at one particular guys reaction (who I have known for twenty years and NEVER heard him play music on anything).

He claimed to have had an our of body experience (and he was completely serious!!)

 

[Bruce B]

I have more people amazed at the room and the "pretty" speakers than the equipment/sound. Women especially like the "furniture"!!

 

[JackD201]

I'm blessed with a wife who is still complaining that I took out the better power cord from her kitchen system to send to a dealer for a demo

I do have plenty of music-loving non-audiophile friends. For them, I have a Squeezebox and Pandora. If they show any interest, I show them how to build their own station, and I've had them sit fascinated for a while exploring music.... at least until the smell of dinner wafts from the kitchen.

My wife's like Gary's. She has keen ears and has sort of developed a workable audio vocabulary. For example she likes power conditioning via the V-Rays for sources but does not like any form of conditioning for the amplifiers. She says the singers become too prominent.

The reaction I get are usually dumbfounded looks followed by expletives then shortly followed by a request of one of their favorite songs that I might have in my library. If I have it, more expletives follow.

 

[Robert]

That's odd. Non-audiophile friends who listen to my system are slack-jawed and speechless. Which, by-the-way, is my reaction also.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I wonder what it is about this hobby that makes us so desperate to convince others of its value? Do coin collectors do this? Do they show their coin collections to all their non-collecting friends and get frustrated by the fact that they don't "get it?" Do hunters insist on taking all their friends out into the woods to shoot at stuff? Are painters happy with appreciation of the art, or do they want everyone to paint? False analogy, let me restate - do framers want everyone to frame? Do they somehow believe that their friends and loved ones cannot truly appreciate paintings if they don't frame "properly?"

Tim

 

[RBFC]

I wonder what it is about this hobby that makes us so desperate to convince others of its value? Do coin collectors do this? Do they show their coin collections to all their non-collecting friends and get frustrated by the fact that they don't "get it?" Do hunters insist on taking all their friends out into the woods to shoot at stuff? Are painters happy with appreciation of the art, or do they want everyone to paint? False analogy, let me restate - do framers want everyone to frame? Do they somehow believe that their friends and loved ones cannot truly appreciate paintings if they don't frame "properly?"

Tim

Tim,

It's not just a matter of converting the masses. It's also selfish. If the high end had a larger customer base, then R&D and production would be on a larger scale. Subsequent pricing would be more reasonable, and I would be able to afford that component which is currently unreachable.

Lee

 

[tony ky ma]

not too many musical artist know what is real HI FI,they knows the sound from musical instrument , which violin sound better, but a young member of TSO (TORONTO)asked me what was that when I showed him the SPJ TT, most of them only know sound from CD and that is the only sound for reproduce imposable to compare to the real sound from instrument( may be old artist is different), also one time we did live recording in both digital and tape at the same time , after the artist hear and check both by a head phone, he love the tape much better and asked to have a copy, but he didn't know need a tape deck to play with
tony ma

 

[ack]

I never proactively demo to non-audiophile friends. However, on a couple of occasions, a few have requested that I play something for them; one of them told me once (in reference to my ML): "Are these just for show"? Then, "Wow". Another friend recently spent a couple of hours listening - he was immediately hooked, and soon thereafter went out and spent a few thousand on a starter system. For most others, I usually play jazz over dinner - the comments one of them made on the Kind of Blue LP was: "it probably sounded exactly like that in the studio". Others appear taken by the sound of strings on LPs (no surprise there), others by the size of a piano reproduction, yet others by the human voice, and almost all of them by the sound of sax on the Take Five LP. But everyone has been smitten by the soundstage, clarity and dynamic range of RR recordings that I've played for them, as well as the you-are-there experience through LP.

With every demo, I carefully point out all the obvious (to me) flaws in the system - things like snare drums still not having a real-life attack and liveliness, orchestra not at concert levels or with all its dynamic contrasts, cymbals still lacking in ultimate shimmer and size - and on bad recordings, I point out that they sometimes sound like a spray can - choruses far from sounding realistic, etc. I make sure they understand it's all an approximation, and when then hear the price tag they usually lose interest immediately. This is why the high end is just an extremely small niche market.

In the end, I would summarize everyone's reaction as "Yes an approximation, very nice, but I would not spend that kinda money". All a matter of priorities.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

as my 2-channel room is in a separate building from the house, when i have non-audiophile vsistors they typically ask to listen or say yes when i suggest it. it's not a casual thing. most know about my hobby so either know to ask or not. mostly i don't offer as i'd rather not add my agenda to their reason for the visit. i'll admit i enjoy showing off the system to a non-audiophile as their reaction is typically fun and exciting.

when they do visit my room i play whatever they ask to hear. i make it a point to try and play digital and vinyl of the same piece of music so they can have that experience. most are pretty amazed at how much more enjoyable the vinyl is.

typical comments are.....

"i had no idea vinyl was so much better!"

"wow, can you still buy records?"

"that sounds like a real trumpet"

"it sounded like Louis was in the room, damn!"

when i play RTR tape that blows their mind even more.

again; these are the ones who wanted to walk the 75 feet from my house to the barn.

yesterday a friend brought his girlfriend who has heard his system; so she's been exposed to a high end system before. what she remarked about was that she was not a Classical music fan at all but that for the first time she loved the Classical music i played. she understood now why many people love listening to Classical music.

some visitors are more impressed (or maybe more disgusted--you never really know what's going thru someone's head) with the room and all the stuff than the music.

of course; sometimes poeple are just being polite and tell you what they think you want to hear.

 

[FrantzM]

Perhaps all of us should have an iPod dock connected to our systems. When someone comes over with an iPod, connect it and play a song from the iPod at 128kbs and then play the same song on vinyl, tape or CD. The differences may become readily apparent.

Have done that in the past ... people are very surprised to notice how good music can sound on a good system. I must also say that truly 320 Kb/s is often.. anyway good enough for the vast majority of people to not care ...
On the sound od my former main system, they were usually floored, then came the price of the whole thing and this was for many of them was a total nonsense ... In general, people seem to be able to appreciate great sounding system. We must however make the effort not to overwhelm them... I have found that my former HT gear ( Krell Theater system, Dynaudio speakers, etc) was to them more interesting than the main 2-ch system... It was more in their general sense of what some loco would spend for an audio system, although still expensive by most people standard but the 2-Ch , frankly for many did not make sense. It did not help to have to answer to the price of the Nordost cables .. they stood out ... Once that number was uttered .. eyes rolled and I know I did appear to be not entirely sane which by the way then could be true since I believe they made a "huge" improvement ... But yes the sound captivated most of them I must say and I did convert a few to full audiophiles status ...
On the subject of proselytism. I do find it natural to share our discoveries with people. Music well reproduced takes us deeper into the meaning of it all. Getting friends to share such a delightful experience is more than proper.
@Mike

I had a TT system that wasn't as good as your Sirius Table but was very good nonetheless. (Basis Debut TT on Vibraplane platform, Graham arm, Lyra or Koetsu cartridge). The TT system did visually stand out and while people were very shocked to hear how good a record was or could be .. few if any ever went as far to find it sounded better than the CD.. Quite contrary I would say.. The noise of the Vinyl was the first thing they complained about.. it is true that I made sure of not coaching them but I have rarely if ever found such from non-audiophiles. one convert friend has gravitated toward vinyl, most not ...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I had a TT system that wasn't as good as your Sirius Table but was very good nonetheless. (Basis Debut TT on Vibraplane platform, Graham arm, Lyra or Koetsu cartridge). The TT system did visually stand out and while people were very shocked to hear how good a record was or could be .. few if any ever went as far to find it sounded better than the CD.. Quite contrary I would say.. The noise of the Vinyl was the first thing they complained about.. it is true that I made sure of not coaching them but I have rarely if ever found such from non-audiophiles. one convert friend has gravitated toward vinyl, most not ...

i don't want to de-rail the thread into a digital-vinyl debate. however; your experience is vastly different from mine.

yes; if i want to play vinyl that is somewhat noisey i can do that. but if i wanted to play vinyl with almost 'zero' noise i could play them for a month straight and only scrape the surface of quiet pressings. if surface noise of vinyl is a major factor in the vinyl experience then it's not a SOTA vinyl playback chain. quiet pressings are out there. new 45rpm reissue vinyl is dead dead quiet.

not every non-audiophile who hears my system holds that experience high enough on their personal priority to get into the hobby, let alone get into vinyl. but a few have done that.

as far as visitors actually getting into vinyl after hearing my system that has happened frequently (as has getting into tape (Like Ki Choi 2+ years ago)); but mostly among those already audiophiles. a month ago i had a visitor who was interested in the Playback Designs digital. after hearing how the vinyl compared he changed his direction and decided to get into vinyl. specifically he heard how vinyl can reproduce a piano compared to his digital recordings.

over the years i've had numerous visitors who had 'digital is superior' viewpoint to begin with. although some still did not think vinyl was worth the effort none have left still claiming digital to be on par with vinyl.

with SACD or high rez off my server it does get closer than before with redbook; but there is still an easily heard difference.

now; if we never listen to analog the digital is amazing in it's own right; and you can go gaga over the digital. the other night i just listened to my server all night and wanted for nothing.

 

[Steve Williams]

Mike

I am curious as to why 45 rpm reissue is dead quiet. Is it because it is a reissue and/or because of the 45 rpm speed. If it is related to the speed, how is this so??